Serial Special: The Adnan Syed Case

[Music] welcome to multiple nerdgasm your destination for all things nerdy this episode of multiple nerdgasm is brought to you by mail kimp male kimp you know I use mail chimp oh yeah I do too actually no I I don't I've never heard of it oh you don't I mean we're not really sponsored by them so I so [ __ ] I don't want to give them too much credit but I do use them what is it yeah I didn't know what it was either it's for M if you know if you want to send out newsletters you can collect people's email addresses and then and Matt do you want to send out newsletters well I have a newsletter sign up on my um music site so that people who want to know when I'm making

more music sry MADD I want to know when you're making more music and I didn't realize I could sign up to a newsletter I'll sign up to my newsletter and I will why don't you let the listeners know where they can sign up go to brainfit and uh actually you know what I've just realized I since I redid the website I have no idea if that sign up form is still on the website so listen fail MailChimp yeah fail yeah well well really by the time they go and see it oh yeah it would have been it fixed that's true so so yeah go to brained tocom sign up if you're interested in my music if you're not interested in my music that's fine you know it's not really got anything to do with this podcast so I mean it's quite reasonable well I mean you say that but Luke and I have a

website too you're not the only one with the website oh that's true in fact if you would like to see my face on Luke's naked body just go to D naked.com and sign up to the mailing list to clarify it's my face superimposed on Luke's naked body it's not my face like pressed up against it no I phot for that you have to email directly um info@ podcast. something yeah if you send a suitably runchy Snapchat to Luke at [ __ ] 4 oh yeah Snapchat uh he might send back uh something a little erotic for you on there yeah you might see a little Sasquatch penis pen that doesn't help me though just sending erotica doesn't help me get erotica probably not D multiple

nasm.com well this is our serial uh episode we'd like to talk about Cal great music yeah great music well yeah except it seemed a little out of place at times I thought yeah but it was also used at such a great leite Motif to kind of when you heard that them coming back in you know yeah I just thought the tone of it was a bit strange at first sure yeah there was an episode of something where they interviewed the guy who wrote all the music for serial right oh he's he's one of The Producers I think wasn't he yeah I think everyone who works on it is kind of considered a producer right like how we're

serial when they had released the first and second episode and I listened to them both back to back and was instantly hooked with this True Crime Story uh then had to wait a week till the second episode sorry the third episode came out and then had to listen to these one a week for the next 12 weeks and it was Agony this was the first podcast that I've ever listened to where I was sitting there on a Thursday night and at around 9:25 I just start refreshing my podcast app and the second that it came out right everything had go off TV off lights off that's me done for the night I'm listening to serial yeah such a weird phenomenon and then the second that the podcast was ended and you know and this is not coming out in real time like a television show this is the second I'd

finished listening to it I'd be looking for the hashtag on Twitter what's people saying about it yeah you know and it's such a phenomenon and I've never I've never experienced that before with anything little of podcast hm well I um I was lucky enough that it was all out before I started listening um and I I don't listen to podcasts as much as I'd like to because generally I catch the train to work and I read or at the moment I'm playing games on my 3DS like I don't know podcasts were very good um for driving because because you can listen to it and you don't have to you you just drive and listen to it so um but on on certain days when Jenner and I both work in the same area she travels around for work so when we're in the same area we'll drive

in together and we were listening to it on those days so um we got through it fairly quickly cuz that happens often enough that we you know kind of got through them all but yeah so I can imagine how having to wait you know a week uh would be frustrating it's frustrating but at the same time it was thrilling and I really imagine what the experience would be like if you didn't have that anticipation well that's yeah that's one thing I I wanted to touch on with it in general but you you just kind of binge listen to all of it Luke is that right yeah I finished all in a week yeah in fact I listen to the last three four episodes today just before we recorded this so I I think with I'm listening to it like that I missed a lot of it right

cuz I just churn through it so quickly I think you'll probably good chunks of it which I just wasn't quite paying attention to where if yes whereas not only did I pay attention I often listened back a second time straight away and then I listened to three other separate podcasts who would do a commentary after each week's episode came out well also after every episode we would discuss the episode for quite a while Jenner and I so um that also helped you know solidify like I I maybe remembered something important that I well I thought was important she remember something she thought was important and we discuss it and then we both be like yes all right how about we actually explain what it is sure why not

go for it um so what serial is is it's actually what is it sorry I had the website and I just lost it well you listen to it so you know what it is well in your own words Luke I wanted to get names right sure it's it's um Ser is a podcast that actually goes back and of goes through a murder that happened in 1999 back in Baltimore of hey Min Lee and actually looks at anad s who was actually um found guilty of her murder yes and he's still in jail today does how long is he in jail for does anyone know I believe he's in like for life life yeah yeah which means that he he might eventually get out you know if he shows remorse but as as a as it happens he's claiming he's innocent so he will never

get out yeah that's right which that's what a horrible thing if he actually is innocent to cuz I I can understand you don't want to sort of say yes I did it just so you can get out of jail you want your name to be cleared you want to be innocent that's um exactly right that's basically what the the West Memphis 3 had to do in order to out except they went with it they W [ __ ] it fine I did it I go to jail because if they didn't Daman Eckles was going to be executed like like within the next like month or something like that and the lawyer said they will kill him if you don't just say all right fine we did it so yeah wow so that was a bit [ __ ] but yeah so he um he's always maintained that he was innocent and he's got some

uh quite a number of supporters uh who've been helping him out but uh it wasn't going anywhere until um they contacted Sarah kig am I saying his same yeah you are I believe um Sarah kanig is a reporter who at some point had investigated adnan's attorney for uh some Financial issues and found that she'd been negligent in in a few ways um and so adnan's friends contacted her and said look you were investigating his attorney we feel that she mishandled the case would you consider looking into the murder and she did and found it very interesting and then made the podcast that's right so uh the the point of the podcast

I guess the premise is that uh it's called serial but even though it's about a murder it's not about a serial killer it's about serial refers to the format um and that means they they're telling a story um an episode at a time like week by week and so every week you get a small piece of the story and that's kind of one of the things that I I wanted to to bring up at first um because it's worth bearing that in mind when you listen to the podcast because um people have said um it was great that she didn't really have an agenda she wasn't for a nan or against a nan she kind of kept her open mind that kind of thing but what some people seem to forget is she does have an agenda because the goal of the podcast is not to solve his murder necessarily it's to

be entertaining and yeah it's a it actually says it's a story told weekly yeah so um and you know if you look online about the case and uh you know because of the podcast uh a lot of um additional information is now online more people are interested in the story and all that kind of stuff so a lot more investigation has happened which is great but um it also has revealed that they left a lot out yeah but that she was never keeping that a secret no all the interviews that she did and and on the website it always said this is not a journalistic Endeavor yeah exactly and she's saying we are purposely withholding information for dramatic effect we are not discussing things that have no relevance to the story we're telling Y and and I think if people

don't understand that then um that's kind of on them oh yeah no I agree I just thought it was worth mentioning because I have you know people I mean listen to the podcast and it is very entertaining it's great but I don't think you can safely assume that you fully understand no but I don't think that's necessarily different from any other True Crime probably true yeah probably right I mean you know you you look at one of the classics In Cold Blood by trim and capot right and you read that and you don't know anything more about that case other than Truman capot wanted to [ __ ] that one dude you know what I mean so I'm not saying that Sarah kaning wanted to [ __ ] Adnan I'm just saying it's all subjective sure yeah well the other

thing like about her having No Agenda she actually she actually doesn't know what what's going to come out with all of this she's she's just learning the story as she goes along as well and even up to the last episode she was going we only found about this out about last week yeah that's right and that's really interesting because you you know that she's done a Year's worth of Investigation prior to this and that they've kind of mapped out where they want the 12 episodes to go but of course they're coming out week to week she didn't make them all and then release them right so as the episode coming out people are calling up going no no no no I was there that's not what happened or people were going actually I saw something different and and I know about

that or I can corroborate that and that kind of made it really interesting yeah yeah something else I find interesting actually is that the person who um who first contacted Sarah to do the podcast I forgotten her name um oh um Ria yeah Ria yeah um she is not very happy with the podcast no she has her own blog and has had for some time yeah and she said that she's quite she's dis not unhappy because it I mean it has helped him get an appeal and all this other stuff and people are interested in that kind of thing but she wasn't really that happy with how not definitive it was in proving his innocence yes especially seeing as Ria's blog is skewed heavily into ad is

innocent and this is simply an exploration of the facts yeah yeah and I mean I mean do you guys I mean do you have an opinion on whether you do you think he did it Luke you've just listened to this all in a go what what do you feel having just come off it I'm sort of leaning towards yes okay mhm oh no get everyone's opinion first but yeah I've got my reason why I think it's a bit sus but Matt what did you think what do you think in I think I think at this point it's he's the only real candidate so I mean I I think it's possible that he didn't but I find it very unlikely so I think I think at this point yeah I do think he did yeah I think there was somebody in one episode

who said that if he didn't do it and he is innocent he is the unluckiest man in the universe because all of these facts have all of these coincidences have lined up to point at him yeah you know it just so happens that on the day a man has conspired to murder your ex-girlfriend you unknowingly loan him your car and your cell phone and then don't create an alibi for yourself yeah and then this is the thing that really got me with the phone he'd only had the phone for 2 days not only that remember back to 1999 would you even let someone hold your phone no were so new maybe I can day old phone like now I wouldn't I probably would lo my phone to someone if they had a problem yeah there there are a bunch of things that are suspicious

about his account of the day because there's a there's that he gave Jay who admittedly he doesn't know that well and also he knows he's a bit of a dick like so he lends him his his brand new phone in in 99 uh and his car because he it's Jay's girlfriend who is adan's friend's birthday and Adnan is for some reason really concerned with the fact that Jay hasn't got her present yeah and the whole point of this is he he's actively seeking out you know sending Jay on a mission to get her it's just it's just it's very strange to me yeah well I think it is very strange which is why it's made such an interesting story because it's while there's no specific evidence that kind

of proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that ADN is the killer there's kind of nothing that he himself or his lawyer um Christina Gutierrez was able to say to prove that he wasn't yeah and there were two trials the first one was a mistrial because Christina went a bit nuts and challenged the judge and then the whole thing got thrown out they then had a second trial which she lost and some people have uh speculated that she lost because of her failing health and you know and that and had she been a bit more switched on she Poss could have argued better yeah well I don't know if you they show you show you you hear audio of her during the trial sounds like a [ __ ] idiot yeah it's it's painful like she

makes she just drags on and her just the tone of her voice is just monotonous and boring and like I just I can't imagine having to sit there for days and days and listen to her drag out facts out of people is that maybe what court is like like we've really only seen on the television true yeah like where they it's the five minutes but trials go on for weeks that's what you have to expect and I wonder too I mean people have said uh a lot of people said you know we're saying oh there wasn't enough enough to prove that he was innocent and I mean the point I point out the you're not supposed to have to do that you're supposed to prove guilt so that's right um and a lot of people are saying I can't believe they convicted him with

all this evidence um and just I feel it's worth mentioning that they didn't have the podcast the jury they had uh Gutierrez and and the prosecutor and clearly the prosecution made a much better case yeah that's right and in court that's what it's about it's about who makes the better case yeah I mean and and little things like the fact that there's an episode where Sarah goes back and starts talking to some of the jury members and I was ask him they're like no no no he definitely did it blah blah blah because why would he lie and then she's going well he had a plea deal and they were like oh we didn't know that yeah the other thing I find very weird about that is he was only ever charged J

the witness was only over charged with accessory after the fact yeah yes because he helped him bury her but not kill her but he knew that this was going to happen so yeah to me I think he convin Pro that he knew that that were happening no no he said yeah he convinced them that he thought it was a joke or that it was just you know he was just talking big I think that's I mean because I mean I can see that like if somebody you know like we've got melodramatic friends who might you know make stupid joke I [ __ ] [ __ ] kill him if he does that again like would I I'm going to kill someone you know I'm going to [ __ ] kill him yeah yeah but imagine if one of them came up to you and went he's my car he's

my brand new phone I'm going to go kill her I'll be call you when I'm done right but he's he's then later didn't he come back later and say that that's not what happened like that's the other thing about Jay is that I mean his story changed so much and have you guys seen he's done an interview recently have you guys seen that I did see no right he Jay gave an interview finally he wouldn't give them an interview on um serial he said no yeah he waited until somebody paid him for an interview exactly and so he's probably been paid very well to give this interview now and basically he has changed most of the story again and it now all happens they go and they bury the body closer to midnight that evening and the whole timing of everything is

out and basically what it means is all the evidence that they used to convict Adan is nullified by the fact that he's now saying it all happened at different times like completely different times and yeah but I mean one testimony to the next his story changed too I mean it was almost like the police were not feeding him information necessarily but certainly stopping the tape and saying no no no no don't say that say this that doesn't help say what you said before about this or yeah that's what's so fascinating about it because it's like okay Jay said that that this happened but why would he lie but then he is lying clearly well here's the thing why clearly he is lying but then what clearly is lying as well it's [ __ ] maddening when you think about it like

you stop and look you find a piece of information like that and you go oh Jay's clearly lying and then you go back and you're like well well he is but I mean still did it like yeah that's right I mean and they probably did it together yeah it's just it probably the cops probably busted Jay and said confess and he said no and they said well we need to put someone in prison so if you know all the facts say you just helped him do it rather than did it as well and we'll let you off yeah that's actually what I think happened yeah that's what I'm s looking towards because Jay just seems to cuz they well the police they just believed everything you said that's what they based their whole case on he knew where the car was he knew where ha's car was and nobody else knew that

unless unless has been and this has been speculated unless the police had already found it and knew that it was there and told him uh no I I think that's I don't think they would have done that okay I mean fair enough well there's also the fact that her body was found under suspicious circumstances as well she was buried and then there dude came and said to the cops I found this body and they'd already been investigating him because he was a bit of a weirdo and then when they went back to find the body it really took them a while to see it and it wasn't like he tripped over it he he he just knew where it was yeah and they kind of tried to investigate that but that was a bit of a dead end so yeah cuz at first they said oh why would you go that far into the woods to pee but

then they went there and oh it's not really that far I guess yeah you'd have to go that far pretty shy and there weren't a lot of trees and bushes so wasn't sh he was a Streaker yeah that's right yeah because I remember she said that they were there and she was like you know what this is where the body was and I'm looking back at the road and I think I would want to go further in if I was going to pee yeah because I can still see cars yeah that's right but how he saw the body when it was just a little TFT of hair poking out from the ground under a log yeah suspicious well that's the other thing people have speculated maybe you know somebody um like Adan has allegedly did tell a few other people like I say allegedly like told you know

neighborhood kid or whatever it was told him about the body or he mentioned it to a few people so maybe the word got around and yeah that's true I mean there's so many possibilities it's just there's there's a lot of weird stuff it's not just the changing of stories that points toward ad Nan being potentially guilty it's things like he spoke to Hay on the phone every day except when she died he stopped calling her even though her death wasn't announced for another three weeks I can sort of have an idea about as well because he she didn't have a mobile no but why did he suddenly stop calling her house all of a sudden coincidentally on the day she went missing remember it was they used to time their calls and do all this stuff so they wouldn't get caught

talking to each other yeah but they hadn't been dating for a while and she had a new boyfriend since then too but I'm just it's not to me it's not entirely crazy back then to not call like you would hear calling her parents to go have you heard anything have you heard anything cuz that's who he would have been calling yeah I suppose would not have been a helpful thing so to have he said he had her friends and he was speaking with them and so if she hadn't been found or anything he would have found out yeah him calling her parents not going to help I think the biggest piece of evidence for adnam is just the fact that if he was guilty why would he leave himself open to this kind of scrutiny true true although one thing I'll say there's well

there's a couple of things about him that are a bit suspicious but also they can be explain because he only remembers things or he's only says that he remembers things that other people have corroborated yeah that's right he he he never has said anything that can't be corroborated and that's either because because he's hiding things or it's for for you know nefarious reasons or it's because he's been in jail for 15 years and he knows that it's [ __ ] pointless saying anything that can't be corroborated But I either way it makes him a bit difficult to to kind of you know like I it makes it hard because it's like why can't you remember anything else like you actually not remember or you just can't be bothered

mentioning it because you know that there's no point you know what I mean cuz he he States in a letter to to Sarah at one point that he tried to keep it all business and he he he think he's thought about it a lot and he knows what will and won't help him you know what I mean and he's tried to be all kind of professional about it and I'm like well in a way that's sort of detrimental because now everyone's like thinks he's some kind of robot like like like why can't you remember you know what I mean like it's it's [ __ ] weird yeah well there was one thing that they said in the very first episode like can you remember what you did 6 weeks ago and I actually thought about it and I I don't have a clue like if you would ask me what I did 6 weeks ago

today I I don't I don't know no I don't think I do either like off the top of my head no but I mean after being convicted of murder and in jail for 15 years I probably would have thought about it a bit harder yeah you'd work it out surely like I'm sure there was I mean well I mean I mean like is was a high school student I think wasn't he and um so maybe he a bit different but I mean I've got also I believe he was stoned most of the time but like surely you could just open up your diary to that day and go oh yeah okay I was here oh yeah I was stoned yeah do you have a diary get stoned yeah that's where I write down where I need to be at different places yeah my calendar on my phone has all sorts of

stuff like I could look 6 weeks ago and I'm sure there's something that would trigger a memory of of probably something like okay yeah yeah I visited my nan in the morning and then you know I did this and I went to work and yeah I don't know I don't think it is that hard to piece together what you were doing on a certain day especially if it was a day where some cataclysmic event happened yeah I know because he says that it wasn't a very important day but it it but the cops were ringing him and he knew yeah that's the weird thing like to me if the cops rang me yeah you might sort of Rec he can't even remember that cuz it's not only that not only that the cops rang him if the cops rang him while he was at someone else's house stoned and he freaked out about it and said

what am I going to tell them and he had to try and act like he was straight like you'd remember that yeah well that wasn't even the cops that was a mysterious other phone call that he oh that's right that that's right that's right not only that we' forgot mention that the only reason they were looking at him was because of an anonymous tip to the cops oh yeah that's also very suspicious where the [ __ ] did that come from because she has a boyfriend it's not like he is a most recent boyfriend I know they say that uh you know you always look at the boyfriend first and it's usually him but she has a boyfriend that they all but dismissed yeah I think it's because um I remember he had like a very he had an alibi like he was very they knew exactly

where he was and he they'd only been dating for what two weeks it's only very new so that's why I think they were very quick to pick up on the ex-boyfriend exboyfriend yeah well I mean it makes sense oh yeah the other thing is that the only person who mentions her moving to California is a nun and anyone else who mentions it heard it from a nun yeah so that's suspicious too yeah it's when they say like didn't you know she was missing and he goes oh I just assumed she went back to California like she always said she would yeah exactly and then everyone's like oh yeah ednan did tell me that she said that yeah that's right and it's like well that's suspicious so I know yeah and her dad's not even in California

apparently he's um right like it's since people have you know checked stuff out and there's she couldn't have gone there her dad doesn't live there so I don't know sure so that's sus the whole thing is very sus but if you take it for what it is an interesting story yeah oh yeah definitely and he's got an appeal um that's happening now does he actually have an appeal now cuz I remember he it he has an appeal based on uh two things the first one is insufficient Council yeah and the second one is new evidence in the Asia Alibi that was mentioned at the time and never brought in in court oh and also I think are they DNA testing those bottles and [ __ ] perhaps and I

know that the Innocence Project which features in a at least a couple of episodes are doing their own investigation and they think that they have other suspects and they believe it's none of the people that we know about they believe it's much more likely to be some serial killer passing through yeah than one of these school kids so they're doing their own investigation that was there was an episode where they talked about one in particular who had gotten out about that time and he targeted young Asian girls and I was like well I mean that seems pretty [ __ ] the only thing that why I think it was probably more so someone she knew over a random person is she wasn't raped

well no no I'm serious like if it had been more of a crime like that like cuz the person they talking about had raped and murdered yeah all right you mean specifically for that person yeah I thought you meant like if you were going to kill a girl you'd Raper no no but [ __ ] crimes so not condoning that but no that's why I think yeah that person was just very farfetched while it did sort of would have F lovely in with the story and everything yeah didn't really match what he was doing no that's true too yeah that's fair yeah so I don't know it's I mean I definitely didn't feel like there was enough there to to prove his innocence at all I think really it was just all

very inconclusive yeah like it's interesting enough that like I think it's wor worth listening to because I mean I'm sure this stuff happens quite a lot oh yeah the other thing I want to mention too was a lot of people are this happens all the time when stuff like this occurs people get really down on the the police or whoever for the investigation that kind of stuff and like you know if the podcast fan had all this information why couldn't they and that kind of thing but you got to remember that if you're a a police officer or detective in a town like that you've got a [ __ ] million things to do like you don't get to take a year and investigate this murder you've got to solve this murder so you can solve the other murder that happened you know you know later on you what I

mean absolutely and they felt very confident that well they had they had a guy confess that he helped bury the body so it be like right cool let's get this [ __ ] done and and filed and let's move on to this other [ __ ] that's ping up my right exactly and and as the the professional kind of consultant they had on the podcast at one point that Sarah can hired to kind of deconstruct the case he said no actually they've made a perfectly good case because when you're a police prosecutor all you have to do is build a case yeah yeah that's right and it was obviously good enough because they found him guilty yeah yeah so because like you said the the goal is not like I said you look at the podcast and you go ah I really just don't know but I mean that's not good enough because if the jury

didn't get all that information maybe the prosecution did did make it look pretty conclusive you know cuz they've got a you know reasonable doubt they're supposed to to say not guilty we can't work it out but if I mean if you know they they believed Jay they said Jay seemed pretty solid um there was a none wasn't saying anything like which came back to his Council telling him not to like I probably would have found him guilty yeah I mean because because like even now I think maybe he probably was so yeah that's right even after listening to him yeah and he's a Charming dude but like and and every time he's actually talking you start going yeah this guy couldn't have done it and then he stops talking and you listen to the facts and you're like well

he probably did yeah yeah so yeah um I mean I recommend everyone listen to it if especially if you're into True Crime even if you're not I think it's probably interesting but Luke you weren't 100% sold on it mentioned it's not the type of thing that I would normally listen to M um well that's the thing it's not the kind of thing I wouldn't I would normally listen to either it's not that I didn't enjoy it I I did find it interesting and I probably will listen to the second episode the second series which is going to come out this year mhm um just to see but um I don't I think it's also I'm not I didn't get caught up in it as a lot of other people may have because it was a story to me

sure like that I knew she kept saying it and that's what I took from it it was a story and that's where you had had the highs and the lows and I could feel that happening yeah yeah yeah agreed yeah it was not a um an instest ongoing investigation where here are all the facts and as soon as we've got an update we'll let you know it was more it was a little bit of that towards the end but mostly it was we're doing out the information to keep you hooked yep yeah that's right it was like a Dan Brown novel yeah yeah yeah like was split it up into unly keeping you on the hook yeah yeah and it worked well that's what they do that's their job yeah yeah so do we know um I mean season 2 is confirmed and all that jazz but it's not going to be about Adar or any

or no I believe their plan is to find a new story and follow that in the same way that they followed Nan and hay so possibly not even a murder it might be something completely different could be H interesting I think it'll be local it'll still be local to where they are I'm assuming can we talk about Le Park oh yeah sure and the fact that everyone there is too dumb to know it's Le Park not Lincoln Park cuz for ages I was like why is she saying leol Park and everyone else that she interviews is saying Lincoln Park is that just how they pronounced it didn't they address that at one point well they addressed that they all say it wrong but I don't think they went into detail of why but there's that happens here they've got a Suburban camera called um Manuka M the queen came

here called manica it's been manica ever since yeah the pronunciation it's spelled different but it is manica my um I used to live out in valaya yeah uh and my nan came over and told everybody you know on the plane and people that she spoke to that she was coming over to visit her daughter who lived in wallia right and I was like oh wish it was called that yeah it does sound uh does sound very Posh it's very yeah it's more British yeah notaa so yeah I think that's just a local thing that gets picked up over time yeah yeah but I know what you mean is is the band park named after that park that's what I wondered or whether people just have heard of Lincoln Park

the band so they just assume that's what this park is called yep yeah cuz Lin and Park have been around since like the really late '90s since before the murder they would have been at the height back then maybe they did it holy [ __ ] we have just cracked this wide open chest up we're coming for you mate that's a singer's name in case you want oh okay Chester Bennington season two of cereal well he was a late addition to Lincoln Park too oh right was he I didn't know that well they were originally called Hybrid Theory it was just Johan and Mike shenoda ah oh there a urban myth about them that they were

constructed by no they weren't I've heard their um early demos yeah I think that Urban Miss was started by Dave because for some reason he really hated them yeah they said that they were put together by the record label because he tried to tell me that once he's like nice Sony put them together and I'm like no they didn't I've got their demos I've got shenoda and Han's demo when they were called Hybrid Theory and their album was called fuse it's [ __ ] great yeah yeah I don't know why that that became a thing oh because hater is going to hate Matt true all right so we're I think we covered all the points I had about serial really I mean there's not I mean yeah we were never going to solve the murder actually I thought it was

quite funny um you sent that video around and I think a lot of people maybe did think the last episode was going to reveal yeah that's what we should quickly talk about before we go is the fact that they they don't solve this crime no of course not no well yeah they they weren't going out to do it to solve it I me dare say they would have [ __ ] done it if they could they would have loved if they could have yeah but they they weren't able to yeah I think all the early meetings would have being under the expectation that by the time they've investigated this they would hopefully know who did it yeah yeah like maybe the finale would be ad nme getting released or something yeah or admitting it yeah right of course yeah yeah I think that's they they would have hoped

for that but yeah they probably knew that that was also not going to happen yeah well I mean starting out I guess they wouldn't have but I mean like she seems pretty from you know about halfway through you can see that she's thinking I don't know if we're going to figure this out cuz yeah there's just not enough information like everybody's it's pretty weird to me to think that something like that can happen and it's like [ __ ] it could be somebody completely different and no one knows some could be some guy wandering around listening to that podcast thinking huh [ __ ] they're never going to catch me yeah they got no idea I was paranoid this whole time they got no idea I can't believe they convicted that guy and now they're looking into it

again and they still think he did it so the only thing we've still got to do before we wrap up and Matt you've already played the jingle so I don't know whether you want to play it again I always want to play it well let's uh let's have it because I I want to hear Luke how would you have killed hman Lee while the other brothers are doing time listen up it's crimes well see what he actually if he did do the strangle and then try to bury he probably would have gotten a whale for that if he hadn't kept his mouth shut mhm and also didn't get his slightly dodgy mate to help out yeah right y like that's all it is he got his dodgy mate to help out and he's the one

who went oh yeah he did it I helped him well thing is his dodgy mate didn't really do much to help him in the end he helped him dig a bit you would need someone to help you dig though well he yeah I guess but they didn't apparently they it was she wasn't buried very deeply or anything help you guys yeah like think T him he would they would dug a bit deeper yeah well here's the other thing that I always think about like I think that strangulation is kind of tied into Crimes of Passion you know you get so someone you strangle them to death yeah you think that that makes more sense but if I was going to Premed murder somebody I would take some kind of weapon to the murder with me yeah I would never think to myself uh be able to wing it on the day with my hands

I got these two weapons right here that's right I don't know um not having a murder weapon means it's something less you have to hide or your fingerprints are on her neck yeah and I mean you are the weapon I mean it's a pretty brutal way to kill someone like I mean I mean not that there's nice way to do it you up close you were looking at the like that is a that's a very intense like fullon way to do it like it's true especially if you it premeditated from a guy who by all accounts wasn't vient or you know it's just yeah yeah it is very strange that that's the the method yeah yeah but that's not to say he didn't do it because um there is one guy has this what I believe to be a pretty solid

theory about it which is that he didn't intend to kill her he um she touched on this in the show um maybe he hadn't really accepted that they broken up until he got back to school and found out that she was with Don and then he made a choice that day lied and said that his car had broken down because that seems to be true like that seems to have happened he did ask for a lift and so he gave Jay his car and said my car needs to not be here otherwise it's not feasible that I need a lift so take the car and and then take my phone because I'll need you to I need you call come yeah yeah so Jay takes the car goes off that's that's why that happens right then he goes to the library right because he knows that hae's going to drive past there on her way out of

school he goes down as she comes past Flags her down gets in and says look I want to talk to you um you know I really feel like you know things are good blah blah blah blah they drive off together he take makes a drive into Best Buy where they spent time apparently getting on the car she says no they have an argument and he strangles up but if that's the case and that makes so much sense except that if that's the case if he had admitted that in trial instead of pleading totally innocent yeah then he would have gotten a much more lenient sentence because a crime of passion yeah a crime of passion gets consideration that a premeditative murder does not yeah yeah yeah and also why why is he still saying that he didn't do it like just [ __ ] give it

up like even if you admit you've done it now there's a chance you'll be you'll be able to get out of jail yeah he's up for parole he can apply for parole oh because the other thing is and this someone pointed this out on on Reddit I think right you know they talk about the pay phone at Best Buy and how there's no there was no pay phone outside or anything like that yeah in one of the early episodes Adan says uh like this a quote Adan says he's questioning whether the M like the whole thing could have happened within that time frame yep and then he says what and then I walk into the Best Buy Lobby and call Jay and tell him to come and meet me there like why did he say Lobby yeah the phone was it it was so

weird that the only people who were they really brought up the phone they were focusing on the phone but yeah Anan was didn't deny there was a phone or anything well they kept saying oh there was no phone outside no phone outside and and they did mention later way later that on the blueprints they found a thing in the lobby that could be a phone but but in episode five I think it is at Nan says Best Buy Lobby so I I mean the other thing to bear in mind with that though is we don't know when he said that like like did did they edit that episode together and not realize that they were that you know accidentally putting in something that they referred to later on you know what I mean like because we don't know what the order of the conversations between him and Sarah kanig was or what

got chopped up into what and you know you know what I I think but my my theory is so here we go that he actually did it Jay helped him but it wasn't actually at the Best Buy I think it was somewhere else mhm yeah and then even what come out now we should we couldn't know during the Pod uh the cereal um that he's now buried at night so I don't understand why the their time frame of it all what the prosecutors went like he did it within this 21 minutes and that just confuses me m well that was only because he was seen at school later so they're saying if she was murdered at a certain time of afternoon there was only a a small window a half hour window where he could have left school murdered her buried her

and gotten back for footy practice and so this is where Jay's the one who said like it was at the Best Buy so that's where that 21 maintenance comes into but remember there was someone saying PA Hall pool hall yeah there was someone also saying that they'd heard of someone getting murdered outside the library yeah yeah which was across the road which would more so EV there would have been a lot of people around but that to me would have fit more of a crime of passion true but I think it also would have more likely been that they misunderstood the that he got picked up by her outside the library right rather than that's where he killed her and you know what I got so invested in the story and what what really started irritating me

around episode 9 you know of 12 was that I'd probably never know yeah yeah I know unless the actual murderer goes hey guys I did it it was me this happen we will never know correct yeah yeah oh yeah that's the other thing Adan says at one point is that you know the only only one who knows is uh is me oh and and and whoever did it well with that there's only one last thing to say and that's that um there's still a shrimp sale at the crap Crib That's all for this week thank you for listening and we hope to enjoy the show if you enjoyed it then please subscribe and items to receive episodes automatically we'll see you next time