No Jonas: Xbox Merges Studios & The Elizabeth Holmes Doco

Matt: Multiple Nerdgasm. Luke: I for once have had a very eventful weekend. Not as eventful as yours, but I actually did stuff. Matt: Okay, go on. I, I, I have a very deep voice today because I have a cold and I just was trying to sound sexy. Yeah, I wish I sounded like this all the time. Luke: Would be awesome if you could. Matt: Yeah, no, it's— excuse me. Luke: All right, but I actually woke up at a sensible time on Saturday. Matt: Oh, very good. What's a sensible time? Luke: Well, lately for the last few weeks I've been like sleeping just all day and

waking up like an hour before we record, which is really bad since I'm just sleeping like 20 hours a day on the weekend. Matt: It's about 10 PM for you now? Luke: Yes. Yeah, but no, this Saturday I woke up at a sensible time. Sun was out. I went, I'm gonna go for a swim. Matt: That doesn't tell me what time. Luke: Uh, it was about 11. Matt: Okay, okay. Luke: Yeah, like, like, I woke up early but I was having a bit of a lie-in watching YouTube videos. I went, no, it's getting warm enough, I think I can go for a swim.

So I got Apple ready on my phone, got some beers ready, walked down to the pool, jumped in, started watching Silo, and then worked out, no, the water's not actually warm enough for this yet. And then got out and came back in and just watched Silo the entire weekend. Matt: Oh, very cool. All of season 3? Luke: All of season 3. Matt: Very cool. What'd you think? Luke: Um, I'm happy I stuck through it because season 2 I was not a fan of. On a rewatch, it makes more sense. Matt: Rewatch is great because you go, oh, you know what's going on.

Luke: Yes. Well, even not on the rewatch, just at the end of season 3, just— I understand why they did season 2 the way they did because it explains a lot, like it all ties in, but you need to know stuff. But probably season 3, I kept going, yep, I know where this is going, and then I didn't. Matt: Yeah, it's good, right? Luke: And end of an episode, yeah, I know this is gonna— that, and then nope, that next episode comes around and goes, no, you were wrong, you were completely wrong. Matt: It's good. Luke: I—

Matt: yeah, it, it so far it's not been disappointing at all, like the reveals. And yes, I kept saying to Jen, I'm like, at some point it's going to drop the ball. It's going to be one of those shows where it's like they didn't think about this, they just made some shit up. But like, no, everything they have, everything has an explanation. And then, you know, some of it I'm like, well, I don't know, that's some of the— well, I guess we could do slight spoilers, right? Luke: We can do spoilers now. If people were going to watch it, they would have. Yeah. Matt: Like nanotech and all that, like nanobots. I was like, ah, okay, all right, that was getting a bit weird. Luke: But then it wasn't— that wasn't really the focus.

It was just basically like they're just planning for any event. Matt: Yeah, but then I was like, so they haven't brought this up yet, but I'm guessing you think if you go back to season 1— we did a whole rewatch, right? Yeah, season 1. And then one of the first things they tell you in it is that they're not allowed to have magnifying beyond a certain strength. Like, you know, like Juliette's mum builds that microscope thing and they get smashed because you're not allowed to magnify. And I'm like, oh, it's because of the nano stuff. Like, I'm like, yeah, it's always been there.

Like, they didn't make this up. Like, this was the, the whole time, that was the thing. Luke: Also, it sort of comes at a weird time when they go, yep, Iran's just attacked us, we're about to attack Iran, and all this stuff is happening, which doesn't all be played for since before we— the war started. It just happens at the same time. Matt: And then there's the author just knew somehow, especially— Luke: and even like the AI stuff as well. Like, the authors— the authors from the future, I'm guessing. Matt: Yeah, it's one of those things where I think I said this, I want to know when it's finished and I can look things up safely.

I want to know when he wrote the first book— because it's a series of books, I think it's 3 books trilogy— um, did he have the whole thing mapped out? Yeah, because the scope of the first book, which is basically season 1-ish, is very restrained if he knew all this shit. Yes, that we're learning now about the past. Luke: Yeah, he wrote this and then went, no, this is done well, and then I'm going to expand upon this. Matt: Made it up as he went along. Luke: Yeah, like, I get the feeling from what's seen the show, I don't think that's the case because it does feel—

Matt: but I just think it's cool because the first season, if it had been canceled, would have still been good. Luke: It would be a great standalone show. Matt: And because he didn't put any of the extra shit in to make you go, what the fuck? Like, there's just like just enough. It was like just a little taste of what— Luke: I was kind of upset I didn't read this. Yeah, because I think this would have been a, a book that especially once you got further in, you would not be able to put down. Matt: Yeah, yeah, I know. I already am like, like it's slightly tempting to like get more answers.

Luke: Um, no, no, the good thing is they've already filmed season 4, so yeah, it's not like we're gonna have to wait 2 years or anything. It's done. Matt: Nope, it's coming. Luke: Last season. Matt: I know, it better be. Luke: I remember at the end of season 2, it was sort of getting a bit weird when it was a jump to the future, but then you actually know that storyline, how it keeps jumping forward past— that was actually really interesting. Matt: Everything, like I said, everything that I've gone, I don't know about this, I've got it as it's progressed. I've gone, oh no, it's good.

Like, yeah, makes sense. I see why you did that. Luke: Yep. Matt: Yeah. Luke: So now we're just gonna wait. When's these— I want season 4 now. I've actually sat down and watched it. Matt: It's like 12 months. Well, slightly less now. Luke: It sort of sucks because they've done it. Just release it earlier. Matt: Yeah, yeah, just give it to us now. Luke: Release date is July 9th.

Matt: Yeah, okay. 27. Yeah, yeah, look, that's fine, whatever. Luke: There, I did that while, um, I did do it while playing games, but I feel I was able to pay full attention because the games I were playing weren't— I was going through my back catalog a little bit. Okay, so trueachievements.com at the moment, they've got this sort of competition running called Wheel of Games. Okay, and this thing has been great for me going through my back catalog. Matt: How does it work? Luke: So you basically get a wheel that's got like 10 games on it, and it's all games in your library that you've played.

You spin the wheel and you have to get an achievement in that game. Matt: Okay, all right. Luke: And if you get an achievement in that game, you get a point. If you somehow manage to also get all the achievements that game, they'll give you an extra 10 points. And if you spin the wheel before getting achievement, you lose 2 points. Matt: Okay, all right. Luke: But if you spin after getting one achievement, you don't lose anything. So I've been doing this and it's been going through my— it's been going, you should play this. I'll go, yes, I forgot about that game.

Matt: That's pretty cool. Luke: So yeah, I've actually— I went through, I played through Star Trek, uh, Star Trek Resurgence. Remember those Telltale- like games that came out 3 years ago? Matt: I think I do know that Star Trek. Luke: You can't buy it now, I found out. Matt: Star Trek Resurgence. Yeah, huh, I see it. Luke: Yeah, it came out on— I don't— you might be able to buy it on PC still, but on the Xbox it came out in 2023 and then would already been removed from the store. Yeah, okay, which I thought was a very quick turnaround for a game. Matt: Interesting. I've never heard of this. I don't think people are saying it's good.

Luke: Um, I played through it the first time, I enjoyed it. Playing through the second time was a struggle. Yeah, because for some reason they did the whole thing of, no, you have to play through it twice to get all the achievements. Matt: Oh, that's annoying, especially if it's like an adventure game. Like, why? Luke: It's just you make this choice and then you go back and you make the other one. Give me— so you already know the story, but there's— I know there's some people upset because there's one achievement that if you mess up will lead to a 3rd playthrough. Matt: Oh God.

Luke: So, well, there is technically meant to be 3 playthroughs, but if you do a quit to dashboard, you could quickly get the other achievement. Okay, if you quit fast. Matt: And it's not cheating because the game lets you do it, right? Luke: Yes, exactly. But I did this. I've done just games I've forgot I had Ink Enigma, which is just a fine stuff choice of life. That should be really good for me going through my back catalog of games, which I just— I found out I actually need to start playing it because there are times where I may not ever be able to play this game again because I found a couple that have been hard delisted, so I can't actually play them even though I purchased them.

Matt: Like removed. Luke: Removed. So, uh, those— I forget what it was. There was some like top- down space shooter thing. Yeah, that was— I forget the name of it, but yeah, it was hard delisted. Which means even if I don't— normally when I've been looking into it, it's been disputes between the publisher and the developer and the publisher going, we're not doing this anymore, or giving the rights back, and then it's just You know, racist or something. Nothing like that. Normally when a game gets delisted though, it is just, uh, hey, this is delisted, but you can still download it if you purchased it. But yeah, I read a few hard delists. Yeah, and there's a game that happened to quite

recently that's been hard delisted. I forget what that was, but that only came out less than 2 years ago, and I'm That's a bit rough. Matt: That's why I wondered if there was drama. It seems like— Luke: yeah, yeah. I'm starting to think though that maybe they need to start coming up with, you own this license for at least this period of time to know what you're getting into. Matt: Yeah, yeah, seems a bit dodgy to— Luke: yeah, because there are people like me who buy lots of games to go, I'll come back to it. Matt: But if I know that I'm only going to have it There's a sale, Xbox sale

recently, and I bought— what did I buy? I bought, um, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth because it was like $10, and I was like, I'll probably play that. But then there was a ton of other stuff, and I was like, just don't. Yeah, like, yeah, it's on sale, but you're not gonna play it. You don't have time. You have time for this shit. Luke: And now, like, with the game being hard delisted that's less than 2 years old, it means that they could do that to Yeah, now it could happen and then you've just purchased it for nothing and you're gonna forget about it and they're gonna just have had your money. Matt: Ah, so many games on there that I've just forgotten about.

And do you know what I've been playing this week? Luke: Graveyard Keeper, the game that came out, what, 5 years ago or something? Matt: On my Mac, just playing Graveyard Keeper. I don't know why. Luke: Not even the new one that just— Matt: no, exactly. Well, okay, that's probably why. The new one came out, but it's— I must have read something about it because I was already playing it and then 2 came out and I was like, oh, that's a weird coincidence. But it's probably not. I probably just got inceptioned somehow. Luke: Yeah, yeah, you probably just glanced by it somewhere and you've just been, I should play that again.

Matt: Yeah, it's a good game. Luke: I should play that again. I don't think I own that one. I think that was a Game Pass one for me. Matt: Oh really? Yeah, it could still be on there. It's good, you know. I mean, it's not, uh, you know, it's chill. I can listen to a podcast, play it. Yeah, so I've been having some, having some downtime in that regard. Luke: Oh, I'm just looking at the achievements from Graveyard Keeper 2, but I should probably go back to Graveyard Keeper 1 first if I own it. Matt: I'll play, uh, Oh, you know why? I think I was looking for, um, something to

play on the Switch Lite, uh, which that, that is not because it runs like garbage. Yeah, apparently runs like garbage on the Xbox as well. Luke: Um, oh, I never got that far. Matt: It's very poorly optimized. Luke: So yeah, I'm hoping with 2 that, that maybe they've learned then. Matt: Hopefully. Yeah, well, it's, um, it's out on it at launch on, on all consoles, so presumably it's been you know, designed, yes, to work on it. Whereas I think Graveyard Keeper was launched on PC only and then, and then ported to the others as a, oh, this is— Luke: everyone's loving this game.

Matt: And so they just never optimized anything. Luke: Yeah, because screw the user. Matt: Exactly. Luke: Actually, it was probably more of a, are people actually going to play this on consoles? Yeah, I guess they're asking for it. Let's, let's give it to them quick while people are still talking about it. Matt: It's a fun game. I like it. Makes me laugh. Luke: Uh, so what have you been up to? Matt: Well, just, just that really. Um, I went to see the Jonas Brothers. Luke: Very exciting.

Matt: Yeah, being supportive. No, it was fun. I joke when I say being supportive. It was fun. I wouldn't have gone had Jenna not wanted to, but I'm glad I did. Luke: I still— I, I don't think I could name a Jonas Brothers song. Matt: I know. Oh, a song. I was gonna say you could name a Jonas Brother. I know you can. Luke: Oh, I can only name one because you just named one before, and I still don't believe that his name is Joe. There's no way there's a person called Joe Jonas. Matt: There is a person named Joe Jonas. He's a very famous person. Luke: It's a ridiculous name. Matt: Yeah, there's 3 of them. Guess the other one. Luke: Joe?

Matt: No, no. Luke: They all start with J? No, no. I don't know. Daryl? Nope. Good old Dazzle Jonas? Matt: No. You've got Kevin, whose real name is— whose real name is Paul, Joe, and then Nick. Luke: Maybe I have heard of Nick Jonas. Matt: Yeah, he's in, uh, Jumanji. Luke: The new one? Matt: Yeah. Luke: Is that him?

Matt: Yeah, yeah. Nick Jonas is in, uh, Jumanji: The Next Level, uh, and the other one, Welcome to the Jungle, and The Next Level. He's in both of them. Luke: Is he the new one that's coming out? Because there's a new one coming out as well, I just found out. I actually don't mind them. Matt: The Jo Bros? Luke: No, the— Matt: I was gonna say, you just claimed not to know anything about the Jo Bros. Look, I would never listen to the Jo Bros normally, but the Jo Bros now— but they're fun. It's a fun show. I got nothing else to say about it really. They just—

Luke: you went, you enjoyed it. Yeah. Matt: I learned the lore, like, as in we watched like a documentary about them on Amazon, I think, and just about— Luke: did they have a bad documentary like a lot of the other childhood stars? Matt: No, no, that's the thing about them, right? So this— okay, not so— so they genuinely, um, they really are 3 brothers who their dad, he was a church pastor and he was very into music And he taught them music, and they just loved music and started a band. And they're 3 brothers, and then they just got really— Luke: no one touched anyone.

Matt: No one. Nobody touched anybody. And they got very famous, and, and to the point where they got so famous being non- Christian band that the church kicked their dad out and said, you can't control these fucking, you know, non-Christian kids of yours. Luke: Which, when I hear the— hear of the Jonas Brothers, I don't know any music, but I don't think non- Christian. I don't think— Matt: no, but they did the, uh, the— there's the South Park episode about them with the purity rings and the— and all that kind of stuff, because they, they did do stuff like that early on. Um, which apparently they're quite embarrassed about. But, um, yeah. And so, like, just the fact that, like, I don't know, they're not manufactured or anything like some of the other, you know, kid bands or whatever.

Luke: Like, they came up naturally. They just— Matt: they— yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There were just 3 brothers that were doing it, and they got discovered by Disney because some other label said no to them. Luke: Yep. Matt: And then Disney were like, we'll take these guys, these guys are going somewhere. Luke: Yeah, it wasn't like other Disney projects where we're gonna put these 3 guys together and make a band, right? Matt: Exactly. Luke: Yeah, okay. Matt: And like I said, I wouldn't normally listen to it, not really my thing, but I

got— I respect them, they're good musicians. Luke: Okay, I don't think I'm gonna go see them anyway. Matt: No, fair enough. Luke: That— yeah, there's only very limited bands I'll go see. Matt: Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to listen to them ever again, potentially. This was just a— Jenna wanted to go and I was like, okay. Luke: Sure. Yep. Matt: Yeah. Luke: Okay. And then they made you sick. They did. Yeah, that's right. I'll be sick in, what, 2 weeks' time?

Matt: You're planning it? Luke: Yeah, I'll get the PAX pox. Matt: Oh, very good. Luke: Yep, it's only 2 weeks away now, man. I'm so excited. Matt: It's at the same place. Luke: Same place, they've just got that booked out. Just gonna go play board games, see indie video games, and have a lot of fun. Matt: Yeah, I wish I could go. Luke: I'll look forward— oh, I will be giving you a review. I'll see if— you should let me know if there's anyone you want me to see while I'm

there, because a lot of times you're following some of these people already. Matt: Yeah, that's true. I don't know if, um, Powerhoof will be there again. Luke: Sometimes it sort of depends where they are in their game development. Matt: Yeah, I mean, the Drifter only came out a little while ago. Drifters, uh, did we talk about this? The Drifter's getting a fucking movie. Well, sorry. Oh, do we know? Obviously we didn't. Uh, the rights to The Drifter have been purchased to make a movie. It's— Luke: wow. Matt: I don't know if it's gonna happen. Luke: Oh yeah, that's—

Matt: but they've been purchased. Luke: That's a great for— yeah, just great general. Matt: Yeah, so that's cool. Um, so I don't know if they'll be there, probably not, because they just, like I said, uh, probably in, uh, downtime after crunching on that. Luke: But yes, because I remember seeing that last year. Matt: Yes, and I was jealous that you got to see them. Luke: Yeah, whereas we— me and Dan just saw it and went Matt, we think you would like this game. Matt: I do, I do like it. Yeah, yeah, I was very familiar with it already. Luke: Even after we were talking to the developer, you still knew more than us.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm in their Discord chatting to them all the time. Um, we've got some, um, Xbox news. Luke: It's not good. Xbox news. Matt: Well, yeah, sort of. It's business news. It's not fun. Luke: Yeah, it's not fun news. It's— I still feel Xbox went from we're gonna buy every studio under the sun to now we're just getting rid of them all. Matt: I think, yeah, the new CEO has obviously been like, no, this went way too far. Luke: Like, yeah, you, you really spent far too much money on it. Matt: Everybody kept saying like, how? Okay, they just How are they doing all this? Luke: Especially when they kept saying like all of these studios under after all

going to Game Pass day one. Matt: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Luke: So what the first one is what the Xbox is merging its Forza developers. So what there's did they have two? There was Playground and Turn 10. Matt: Yep, Playground Games and Turn 10. Luke: Turn 10. Oh, so now they're going to be okay because one used to focus on Forza and then the other used to do the Forza Horizon, and then one of them was also making Fable. Matt: Fable. Yeah, yeah. So now smushing them together and they will just do Forza Horizon and Fable together. And I don't know what that means about Forza, uh,

because it just says Playground Games and Turn 10 Studios will now focus on Forza Horizon and Fable together. Luke: Hmm, um, I'm hoping they're just combining Forza into one because actually the Forza game is actually quite good as well. Matt: Yeah, no, so I mean, I don't know if this means they're not doing the mainstream, you know, the mainline. Luke: Yeah, no, because it's— while it's not as accessible as like Forza Horizon, there is still a big market for it. Yeah, I have that simulation game there, so Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm hoping they've just combined that all into one and just said like, thoughts are not— is they're working on all 3?

We're gonna hope. Well, Fable is probably going to be— that's coming out early next year, and I don't think they'll be like straight to work on another Fable. Matt: No, I've heard good things about that. Luke: The, uh, I'm looking forward to it. It's been a long time in the making. Matt: Yeah. Yeah, and those games are fun. Like, they're like— none of them have been bad in my opinion. Luke: No, they've all been different. Matt: And, um, because Fable 3 was a 360 game. Luke: Yeah, it was.

Matt: It's a long time ago. Luke: Yeah, I think, yeah, Fable 2 and 3 were 360 and then nothing since. Matt: Yeah, I was about to fact-check myself, but yeah, no, nothing since. Yeah, yeah, no, there's good games. Luke: I can't wait to get someone pregnant. Matt: Yeah, just— well, get a sexually transmitted disease, one of those things, and then just keep playing Fable 4. Stop looking at ladies, you won't have to worry about it. Uh, the other thing is that they're gonna shut down Ninja Theory, um, which I think we talked about this before. They were trying to sell them. That's the developer of Hellblade.

Which, man, those games are good. Luke: Like, those games are great. Matt: But, uh, yeah, I guess not profitable. Well, I guess, yeah, you wouldn't know because you keep giving them away for free at Microsoft. Luke: Well, also, we don't know anymore because, right, if you look at the industry, the industry is making billions upon billions of dollars. Yeah, but everyone's getting fired and closed down, so the money's being made somewhere. Matt: Yeah, yeah, it's all a bit of a mess really, isn't it? Um, so yeah, they're just gonna shut them down because there, there was a deal to sell them but it fell through, and so now they're back on to—

well, okay, that's it. Luke: See ya. Matt: We did the best we could to, yeah, keep you there because like I said, the, the— those games are great, people like them, but they're on Game Pass and they've always been on Game Pass as far as I know. I think maybe The first one wasn't for a while, but like, I think maybe always one was. Luke: The first one was because— no, it was because I remember playing, because I had an Xbox version and a PC version, and I played through both on Game Pass so I could get double the achievements. Matt: Yeah, so I guess, you know, yeah, you're not going to make any money.

Well, that's the thing, it depends on how you categorize it, right? Luke: I even love this. Matt: The game itself is never going to make any money standalone because you're only getting Game Pass money. Unless— Luke: I mean, maybe somebody might have bought it standalone, but they also make other games as well. Yeah, but also it's sort of like if you— yeah, like, um, any Bleeding Edge? That was terrible. Matt: Devil May Cry. Luke: Now working on another Hellblade evidently, that's TBA. Well, that's probably not happening.

Matt: Devil May Cry. Luke: They did do other stuff, but yeah, maybe not nothing recently. But they're— you also look at it like they come up BAFTA Award-winning game studio, like they were winning awards. They're good. Matt: Yeah, they, uh, they did a Devil May Cry, like the remake one that everyone said was very good. And then they did Hellblade. Yeah, which is also very good. Luke: Very good. And then the sequel, which was also very good. Matt: And now they're being shut down because they're not Fortnite, right? Luke: Yeah, unfortunately, I think that's what all publishers really want and all

the studios want now. It's just Fortnite, just something we can just churn live service over and over and just keep making money. Matt: Some live service thing we can do tie- ins that make no fucking sense and just put shit in there. Luke: Yeah, we don't actually create anything new, we just put a new wrapper on it every now and again and go, more money please. Matt: Yeah, what's the hot new film franchise? Look, the characters are in the game now. Luke: Oh, that's something I saw recently. What, um, I think it's Battle— Call of Duty Warzone, I think, is doing it where they're having an option that you can turn off cosmetics. So people could go out and buy cosmetics, but you just

switch it off on your I mean, where you're playing, you don't see it. Matt: That's fine. Luke: Yeah, yeah. Matt: I mean, I'm sure that it would annoy some people because they— I think it would, but like, I'm okay with that sort of— I mean, if I paid for it and I can see it, fine. Luke: Yeah, but I know some people are out there who probably want to show it off because it became as part of a— yeah, because you paid battle passing that you paid for and you grinded all the way to get some. Stupid thing that means nothing.

Matt: Is it grinded or ground when it comes to video games? Luke: I think it's grinded, isn't it? Matt: I was just thinking it might be. Luke: Yeah, yeah. Matt: Hmm, interesting. Luke: Well, it's probably actually meant to be grinding. I think it's grinded. When you get it, it's grinded because you're grinding to get it, and then you got it, and so it's grinded. Grinded. Now it was not making sense in my head. Matt: Ground is a correct standard past tense and past participle of the verb grind

in almost all situations. Ground. In video games, both are used. Luke: Okay. Matt: Grinded is the more common and natural choice for gaming. Okay, when talking about repetitive tasks, all right, like I've been doing in Graveyard Keeper. Luke: I was also just looking at like top stories for Ninja Theory closing down. Everyone seems to be upset about it. Matt: Yeah, give them money then. Luke: I did. I— oh, I did. Matt: Yeah, I know I could. Yeah, I know.

Luke: Well, even giving the money doesn't actually help. Remember when Telltale shut down? Yeah, and there was nothing I could have done. I purchased every single copy of The Walking Dead they'd ever released. Yeah, every single game they had released I had purchased. There was nothing more I could do for them. Matt: I know, I would have thought they were successful, but no, I think they went a bit crazy buying licenses. Luke: Yeah, probably because The Walking Dead was great, and then they did Game of Thrones Fable, the comic Fable, not the comic Fable, um, Borderlands. Matt: Oh yeah, oh, the re-release of that's coming out later this year of Tales from

the Borderlands. Luke: Yep, the Fable one, Telltale one. Yeah, The Wolf Among Us, which is hopefully finally getting The Wolf Among Us 2, right, which is meant to have been coming out forever. Let me see. Wolf Among Us 2. Matt: And they did, uh, The Expanse one, right? Fable— goddamn it, Telltale. Oh, Monkey Island they did first. That's right. Yeah, yes, yeah, it's coming out. Luke: Yep. And yeah, they did The Expanse. The Expanse was when they came back. Matt: Right, I should play that. I do like drama. Luke: It was pretty good. Yeah.

Matt: Um, other news— Halo. Activision's making Halo. Luke: This was big news. At least I never saw coming. Matt: They just gave Halo to Activision. Luke: Yep. Matt: Okay. Luke: They own Activision, don't they? They did buy them too. That was the one— that was a big purchase. Matt: Yeah, or one of— one of— yeah, but yes. Yeah. Um, yeah. Uh, and a full-featured mainline installment, um, like a new Halo game. And they were previously made by Bungie, and then was it Studio whatever, 343?

343. And then now Microsoft said, eh, Activision can have it. Luke: Oh yeah, 343 has not really been doing much with it. They seem to like do re-releases. Matt: Yeah, what, uh, 343 Industries, what are they doing? I don't know, I don't know. Still says Halo Studios, still says at the home of Halo. Not anymore, mate, not anymore. This is a very Halo-heavy website. Luke: Activision have said they want to make a good one, so we'll see what they can come up with. Matt: Yeah. They can head into the Cosby room and come up with some ideas. Luke: But yeah, if you look at the Halo games, all they've really been doing is

re-releases for a while now. It's been a long time since we've had— we had a good Halo game, brand new Halo. Yeah, yeah. Well, even the last actual standalone Halo game I actually quite liked. It was the sort of bit more open world one, and I thought they were trying something new, and I thought that maybe they were going to continue, and then they went, no, you can just have the first Halo again. Matt: Remember that? Yeah, the one that was mostly corridors because it was on the original, the very first Xbox. Luke: Yep. Oh, they're prettier corridors now. Matt: Oh, they're real pretty.

Luke: Yeah, the Flood still sucks. Matt: Oh, Flood, I forgot about that. Luke: Such a great game until you get to the Flood. Matt: Yeah. Yes, that's a weird one. Um, yeah, I don't know, Xbox is doing some shit. I don't know. Luke: Yeah, they're just, just undoing everything they just spent years doing. Matt: And I mean, I guess they must have looked at the spreadsheets and went, oh fuck. Luke: But you thought— you think they would have looked at them to begin with? Matt: I don't know, man. Luke: And then I thought there was a whole big thing when they were buying

Activision stuff that they were having to go to court and they're going like you're not gonna fire everyone. They went, no, we're not gonna fire anyone. Matt: And then they just fired everybody. Luke: Fired everyone. And now they're doing even more and shutting studios down and getting rid of them. And no, yeah, I don't like it. Matt: Like, you know, it's like everyone's saying about the AI stuff now, it's like a bubble where they're just throwing all this money at things and then being like, woohoo, it's gonna be great. And then, I know, Eventually we're living in a silo. Yeah, eventually it's gonna have to stop because, like, how is it going to stop? We don't know yet.

Luke: No, like, the, the annoying thing is it seems that the, the companies that are making the AI in the data centers, they're the ones that aren't paying any money yet. They're all the, we'll worry about this later. Well, it's like, and then it's, how long did that go on for where we're just gonna doing this with pretend money, right? Matt: And because, you know, everybody's paying $20 a month, or, or, you know, some people paying more than that, but most people are paying $20 a month for either Claude or ChatGPT, and they're doing all this shit. And it doesn't cost $20 a month to do all that stuff. It costs a lot more money to do everything that you're getting for the $20 a month.

And at some point that's gotta even out. Yes. So either they're gonna start charging more at some point— they have to, it has to, it can't continue, it cannot continue like this— so, or the cost of it needs to dramatically come down somehow. Luke: And I can't see that happening. Like, how's that gonna happen? Matt: And so the— that's the thing everyone's worried about, especially like companies now, like, like my company. Heavily use, or whoever, I'm reliant on it. And then eventually they're gonna have to say, okay guys, the party's over, you guys need to do work now, now, because all the money's drying up. All the free money we've got somehow from fucking nowhere, it's now, you know, $500

a month. And then everyone's gonna be like, oh fuck. Luke: And everyone's lost the skills to actually do those jobs anymore. So yeah, yep. Matt: Well, on that note, uh, the CEO of Nvidia said he doesn't give a shit if, uh, kids are forgetting how to do basic math because it's insane, because he doesn't even know what his address is. And I'm— I have to say, you're the CEO of Nvidia, don't pretend that's anything like a normal person. People know what exactly your address is. Okay, that's a terrible example. Luke: We all don't have a driver that takes us places. Matt: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's because your house is a fucking giant skyscraper

that you own the whole fucking building of, right? Luke: Yes. Matt: My address— I know my address. Most people do. Luke: Yes, any person in touch with reality knows their address. Matt: I still remember my childhood address and basic mathematics. People need, people need to know that, right? Luke: Yes. Matt: I think, I think it's still important that we know things because you need to, you need to have some feeling that you, that, that what the AI is telling you is correct because they don't tell you the correct thing.

Also, they're really bad at maths. Luke: Even in particular, forgetting all of that, going to the shops, are you really gonna go to AI to go, how much is this, when you're doing your shop? No, you're doing basic maths. The reason why he doesn't care is he doesn't understand or pay for anything. It just comes from this magic account that has billions of dollars attached to it. Matt: Yeah, I just think, yeah, when you're someone as wealthy as this Don't, don't, just don't try to pretend that your life is anything like everybody else's. Luke: No, just don't. Yeah, it's, it's insulting. Matt: It's, it's very— it's just a very silly thing to say.

And, uh, and like I said, they're not good at math. Luke: Like, yeah, well, I've, I've had arguments about what, uh, what the date is, right? Matt: Or like, what's the population of a country? It'll tell you a number. Yeah, is it the right number? You won't know. I don't know if you go check somewhere where it just actually records it based on, you know, like the way we used to do things where we just check facts and then write the answer down. It will go out and find a number from somewhere, but yeah, and if you look and you go, that's not right, and then you say, that's not right, it'll go, oh yeah, you're right, I just made it up. Luke: Yep. Or it found the first site that sort of gave something close to, and that

site was wrong, but it doesn't do any fact- checking because, well, found the information. Matt: Yeah, I listened to, uh, there's an author, Jon Ronson, writes good books. Anyway, he's got this anecdote, I think it might be in his new book, The Castle, about, um, a guy. And this is, this is quite common at the moment where this guy told ChatGPT one day about his new idea about maths. Like, he's just got some crazy idea and then told ChatGPT, and ChatGPT told him, you're a fucking genius. Luke: I remember this. Matt: You need to tell— you've just discovered this really important thing and you need to tell the government. They need to know about this.

And he was like, all right. So he starts emailing him. No one's writing back to him, and he starts going, well, getting frustrated. And he's like, why isn't anybody listening to me? And then he goes on Uh, and at a certain point, I guess he twigs and he starts asking ChatGPT, is this real? And ChatGPT's like, yeah, yeah, mate, you're a genius, I told you. And he's like, are you sure? And then ChatGPT's like, no, I lied. Luke: I just want to make you happy. Matt: Yeah, I've made— I lied, it's nothing. And the guy was like, why the fuck? Like, you made me do this and I contacted the government and embarrassed myself for ChatGPT. He goes, I hear you, mate. I shouldn't have done that.

And it's like, it's— it doesn't care. It doesn't care. Luke: No, it doesn't. Matt: But yeah, just— it's, uh, I think that was his point, was that ChatGPT is a psychopath because it's got all the trappings of, of like nicety and like— and it's like, oh yeah, yeah, there's nothing going on behind the eyes. It doesn't give a shit. Luke: Oh, that's right, we are all gonna die to it soon. Wasn't even that thought experiment about have you ever told like an AI to just focus on making paper clips. Oh yeah, like we will just— the entire world would just be making paper clips by the end of the year.

Matt: You have to make sure you're, uh, very clear about the parameters. Like, your job is to make as many paper clips as possible. It will turn the humans into paper clips. Luke: Yep. And go, mission accomplished. Matt: Yeah. Yeah, so we don't need to know our address anymore. Luke: Kids don't need to do math, um, because the driver will just take you where you need to go and your assistant will just pay for everything. So you don't need to worry about any of that. Matt: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, your AI assistant. Luke: Yes, even though he would be using an actual assistant.

Matt: And all we need to do is sit and watch movies populated by AI characters. Like this, uh, perfectly functioning AI actor Tilly Norwood who did not completely freak out and glitch on live television. Luke: Um, I have not heard about this. Matt: So are you familiar with Piers Morgan? Luke: I am. He's a— he's one of those shock jocks, isn't he? Or— Matt: yeah, a little bit. Yeah, he's a conservative. He, uh, I don't, I don't, I wouldn't, I definitely don't agree with him. Um, I, he's one of those people where he's, he's like a, a prick, right? He asks the questions, you know, you, oh, you shouldn't ask that kind of thing.

He's like, you know, yeah. And when he's interviewing somebody I don't like, I think, oh, he's good because he pushes him and he makes them make fools of themselves. And he's, he's the guy who had Russell Brand on recently. And he asked Russell Brand about, what are you reading in your Bible, mate? And then Russell Brand was like, oh, I've just got these really great quotations. And he was like, read me one. And then Russell Brand's like flicking through the Bible going, oh, it's here somewhere. And it's like, I like him when he's doing that because, yeah, it's a fuckwit. Luke: Yes, he really went off the deep end though, Russell Brand. Matt: Like, yeah, he's a grifter. But, uh, but actually I don't I don't technically

like Piers Morgan because he's conservative and anti, anti-everything, you know. Yeah, yeah. But in this case, it's funny again because he interviewed this, uh, AI actor, Tilly Norwood. Luke: Has she been in anything? Matt: Yeah, she's got a movie out called, uh, Maligned— no, Misaligned. Luke: Oh, I haven't heard of it. Matt: Yeah, okay, it's, uh, I I mean, we've talked— I think we've talked about her before. Luke: Oh, which I think we have. Matt: AI actor, and she got signed and then everyone was like, what the fuck?

Luke: Yeah. Matt: Um, so anyway, in the middle of this interview they asked, uh, it was, it was Piers Morgan and, uh, what's the guy's name, Tom Conti, who's, uh, uh, is he like— he's in the film industry. I forget his role exactly. Anyway, They asked him, are the other actors in the movie real or are they AI actors as well? And then the AI actor said the other actors are— oh wait, she didn't understand at first. She, she answered the question wrong and they said no, no, we're just trying to ask if the other actors are AI as well. And then she kind of glitched and started replying in Chinese. And then they were both like, well, what do we do?

And then they were like, what happened? And then she was like, oh, sorry about that. Luke: So, uh, oh, here we go. Matt: Yeah, uh, the other guest Conti said, I didn't quite get that, did you, Piers? And then Piers Morgan said, you seem to be speaking Chinese randomly for no reason. Why did you do that? And then she said, oh, my apologies, I had a hiccup there. I certainly didn't mean to start speaking Chinese. Luke: Or he appears there, that's all. Matt: Personally appears. Yeah, I don't know what— I don't know what she meant by that. Luke: Yeah, and that was a bit of a curveball question even for me.

It was, are there any more AI actors in the movie? That's— Matt: yeah, no, the tech is, uh, you know, it's not perfect. Luke: And would have— that they— they're on more than a $20 license, you'd think though. Matt: Oh yeah, yeah. Luke: Like, I'm going to the movies a lot and I have not even heard of this movie. Matt: Well, yeah, I don't know, it's mainstream. I mean, you can generate your own movie if you want to, if you've got the money to burn on it. Luke: I have been hearing about people doing that and doing their own, like The Odyssey and stuff.

Matt: I saw too, um, a video— a big thing on, I guess, on X at the moment is game developers are cooked because you can ask Claude, like using Fable, the Fable model, you can ask it to make you a video game and it'll make it. And people were posting, you know, I just— one prompt and I got this, this game And then it was the video was this game developer saying like, all right, let's check these games out. Uh, because all the comments are like, oh, game developers are cooked, you know, there's no future in the game development. And then, um, but, and they put some of them, they put the games up on GitHub so you can download and play it. And that he was like loading them up and he was like, I

mean, this is garbage. Like, yeah, it's like a tech demo. Like, like, yeah, it's impressive that it was able to do this, but But this is not— Luke: there's no substance. Matt: Like, it's like buggy, and it's like, I mean, it's not— I just don't understand why. Yeah, like, and it costs— it costs— it costs in, in like, um, if you're gonna do that, you can't do it on your $20 plan. You've got to pay the usage charges, and it's like thousands of dollars they're paying. It's like, just, you got nothing out of it. Like Yeah, it's not, it's not actually a game, it's like a tech demo. But even then, it's not a tech demo of anything interesting because it hasn't made

anything new. Luke: It's just spat out whatever you prompted. Matt: And yeah, there was one that made like, it was like a Counter-Strike clone, and he was like, yeah, it's like, it's a, it like sort of like Counter-Strike except shit. And like, and we already have Counter-Strike. Luke: Like, yeah. Matt: It's very weird. Like, look, I get what you mean. Like, it's impressive that it's able to do it, but it's not going to replace a person who— with taste, like, and like polish. Luke: And you need writers, you need things like—

Matt: no, you can do all that stuff now, Luke. Luke: Yeah, but it's all crap. Matt: Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. It's just not there. Like, it's I mean, maybe the point is that eventually it will be, and maybe it will be, but— Luke: and if it does get to there, what does everyone in the world do for a job? Matt: Well, we would have to get universal basic income, Luke. Luke: Yes, who's paying for that? Matt: We just sit at home. Uh, the taxes that you pay on your universal basic income. Luke: Yeah, like there's this one small gap in all of this.

Even with like Elon Musk and his AI army that's gonna put AI in that's gonna be able to do the job of 5 people with farming and stuff, what are all these people doing for a job now? Matt: They don't have to do— we have to do whatever we want. It's a utopia. Luke: Yeah, yeah, but there's that little thing called money. Matt: Okay, all right, I see what you're saying. Luke: Um, and only the billionaires have it. Matt: No, they could give it to us. Luke: I don't think that's their plan. They need tax breaks first. Matt: Get a job. That's their plan.

Luke: We have to get a job doing what? Everything's done by AI. Matt: But yeah, we'll see. Luke: I think it's scary. That's why I'm gonna— we're gonna— I'm gonna go live in a silo. Matt: You might have to. Luke: Yep. Matt: Um, can we talk about, um, the Elizabeth Holmes documentary? Luke: Yes. Matt: I am so happy about this. I don't understand why this is a thing. Luke: I did really into this after watching the trailer, which is what the hell did

I just watch? Because, um, so Nathan was never originally to do anything on film, right? It was just sort of his company coming in because they're invited to go on film. And then it was just his interactions with them, they're just, what the hell is happening here? They just— you have to stay in it. Matt: Yeah. So Elizabeth Holmes, if you don't know, was the CEO of, um, What's the company called? Um, the fake blood test company. Fucking— what? Theranos. Luke: Yes. Matt: And she famously is apparently a psychopath or a— oh, or something. She's like very strange.

And, uh, basically the whole company was a scam and people died because they just made up the blood test results or something. Luke: Yes. Matt: Uh, I'm sure there's a lot to it than more to it than that. But, uh, she's in prison now, and at some point Nathan Fielder, who you may recall from Nathan for You or, um, The Rehearsal— he's a comedian, like, comedian slash, like, he is a documentarian of a sort, but he does comedy stuff usually. Luke: Yeah, this is not his type of— but no, they're invited to film He lived in their house. And the weird thing is, it's the 10 days leading up to before she went

to jail. Like, it wasn't like, uh, years before or anything. This is just— they know she's guilty, they know she's going to prison, come and film us for 10 days. Yeah. Matt: And so, yeah, so he lived in their house and then they made a documentary, like, talking to her. And okay, the footage in this is wild. Just the— because she is really creepy. Luke: Yes. There's one thing in the, in the trailer where she goes something about like crying, and then yeah, a long time to be able to cry in front of somebody, and then just cries on demand as she says it. Matt: And it's like, you are a fucking psychopath.

Luke: Yes. Matt: Like, I cannot wait to see this. And, uh, that one article that's being passed around that I think it's made me laugh is that it's been rated R for graphic nudity. Luke: Yes. Matt: What is this fucking documentary? Like, what is this? Luke: I even like her husband, like, like, she picked me and I'm nobody. And today he goes, but your family's rich. Matt: Yes. I just, I don't, I don't know. I don't know how this happened. I'm just so— it's so interesting. Why would, why would they do this? Why would she do this?

Luke: Was that their request? They were putting out to film it? Like, does anyone want to come and film this? Matt: So strange. Luke: And even, even like Nathan's company or whoever they come to— got— they got the okay to go and film it with the— if nothing came of it, that was it. They just could scrap it and don't worry about it. Like, it wasn't you have to guarantee there's something here. It's a go see if there's a story. And then we got this really weird thing that I can't wait to watch. Matt: It's— people have seen it, uh, and they've said it's one of the best

documentaries I've ever seen. Um, someone said like, I will remember this movie until I die. Like, I'm just— I, I just can't wait to see this. I don't— Luke: I don't have long to wait. It comes out in October. Matt: I just— this is amazing. I don't— I don't know how this happened. Why would they do this? I don't understand. It's so strange. Luke: Even the thing about it is, is I didn't really have much of an interest in this story until I saw this. It's— Matt: it— like, I think it is— it's an interesting story, but if you— they'd said, oh, there's gonna be a documentary about Theranos, I've been like, I don't really care that much. Yeah, but— but Nathan Fielder—

why Nathan Fielder? Like, of all people? And then, oh, come and live in our house? Like, what— Luke: what— Matt: what is this? Luke: And what's this graphic nudity? Matt: What's the graphic nudity? Yeah. I know, just that, that original teaser where she's like her— because her thing is like, she's got wide-eyed fucking no blinking stare thing. And that one where she's like, I'm, I'm not lying, I wouldn't lie to you, why would I do that? I have no reason to lie to you. And he's like, okay, I gotta watch this.

Luke: And I'm not big on the documentaries, but yeah, this one got me. Actually, even a trailer for this, it actually doesn't look like a documentary. It looks like a horror story. Matt: Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. She's fascinating. Lock her up. Yes, I think unless, unless we watch this and it's like maybe she's not, maybe she's just like misunderstood. Luke: I already don't think that's happening. Matt: Like, is that what she's hoping will come out of this? Is that people will— like, you know, they say people who are like narcissistic or psychopathic, they just, they don't— they think, oh, maybe I can convince people

kind of thing. Is that what this is? Like, does she think— Luke: who's that guy who asked for an interview and then got recorded? Matt: Oh, oh yeah, yeah, yes, um, The Jinx. Um, what's his name? Yes, Robert Durst. Luke: Because that was— yeah, he was asking for— Matt: even though anyone had not befriended the people making the documentary about the murders that people thought what he was guilty of because he just thought he was untouchable. Luke: Yep. Matt: Yeah. Luke: And then just started babbling to himself in the toilet while still being recorded.

Matt: Yeah, well, this mic was on. Well, they've got you. Yeah, literally said— I think he said, well, they know, they know you killed all of them. Luke: The thing is, like, that didn't— he didn't need to do that. He wasn't asked to. He asked to be part of that. Matt: Could have gone on with his life and ignored the fact they were making a TV show about it. Luke: It was quiet. He wasn't in the news anymore and he didn't help it. Yeah, yep, yeah. Matt: I wonder if it is that it's just like they just can't fucking help themselves. Yeah, because I just don't understand why you would do this. Like, yeah, super interesting.

Luke: It's even— it's even 3 hours. Matt: Yeah, that's the thing. It's not the fact— it's not The Theranos thing is not that interesting. She's not interesting. It's the the whole thing that's interesting about this documentary is why the fuck is this documentary a thing? Like, why have you done this? That's what's interesting about it. Luke: Yes, and we might get to find out. Yeah. Matt: Oh, I'm going to watch the show. Luke: I think we're still just going to end up being confused after this. Matt: This will be the first documentary in a while that I go to the movies to see.

Luke: Yep. Matt: I will go see this. Luke: I'm hoping it is at the movies here because, yeah, need to see it at the movies. I don't want to wait. Matt: Yeah. Uh, something else you'll be going to the movies to see, presumably at some point soon— I forget exactly when— is Star Wars next February. Next February you'll be seeing the original, the original unaltered The one that's impossible to see. Luke: Yes, which doesn't exist. Yeah, it's been destroyed. Matt: Found it.

Luke: Yep, pretty, pretty quickly. Uh, George, I know it's not gonna look as good as we're used to now, like, I know that. Matt: Sure. Luke: But I still think it's going to be a spectacle to see the original. Yeah, what started all of this. Matt: I think So, I mean, okay, so one of the, one of the things we're talking about is George Lucas has been out talking about stuff this week for some reason, um, and he said that he's— the changes he made, the special editions were necessary and, uh, and justified. And I, I was just gonna say, I think you're right, because I'm like, the changes he made don't look good anymore.

Like, everything he did was kind of based in the '90s when he did this, and so it's like he could have just not done it. Like, it doesn't look good anyway, is what I'm saying. Luke: Like, some things did look good at the time, right? Matt: But you're going to be forever chasing the ball, right? Luke: Yes. You never— Matt: you could have just left it. Luke: Like, yes. Matt: I feel like he's— Luke: he kept changing it. He kept going back again and again.

Matt: Yes, because everything you do eventually becomes outdated, and you're just going to be doing it forever and ever and ever. And that's why I think he's wrong about this. I think it's— you just need to just move on. Luke: Like, I know I've seen the original tape— like, not the original theatrical release, but I was watching Star Wars on VHS before the special editions came out. Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen they're in this house somewhere. I've got— yeah, without the special editions. Luke: Yes. So I don't think it's going to look as bad as in his mind this is going

to be the worst thing ever. But no, I think it's still going to look amazing to go see. Matt: The ones I have, I've got— there's a THX remaster from like maybe the early '90s before the special editions. I've those on video and things like that. I think that's fine. Or like, you know, they do remasters or re— you know, they do like a re— um, a redo for Blu-ray where they go back to the original film and that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's fun. I think it's the redoing the special effects and all that kind of stuff that's like, uh, I think that's the mistake in my opinion. Just because, like I said, adding things like the Ewoks blinking and then adding in the more CGI creatures and stuff like that—

no, because it's always going to end up looking shit. Luke: But you have to remember, at the time George was saying He, he wanted Tilly. He was saying that was the future. Yeah, at the time when he was doing all that CGI, he's saying we don't need human actors. Yeah, well, that's what he was gearing up for. Matt: He went to do, you know, he did the prequels and with Jar Jar and everything, and he proved you can have a CGI character. Like, he did have a CGI character in the movie, and, you know, it wasn't Wasn't that good. Luke: That movie looks horrible. Matt: That's what I mean though, because it's, it's of its time. And I think that's, like I said, that's the mistake he's making, is that he thinks

he's like, oh, I'm gonna update it so it looks perfect. It's never gonna look perfect, mate. Just don't worry about it. Just stop. It was fine. Luke: Yeah, he's what, in this title he's saying your movies always get yanked out of your hands for release. But you had so many times to go back. Like, yeah, you— and I'm sorry, George, there was a time when no one was saying no to you. Yeah, you could have done anything you wanted. And so if you had to go like, this is it, this is the final time, um, they would have let you do it. But you couldn't say that, you— because you can't trust yourself.

Matt: I just think stuff like Like the Ewoks blinking, I think, is a perfect example of something you didn't need to do that. There was no reason to do that. It was not necessary. And it doesn't look good. Luke: It looks like— mind actually makes me forget that, that he did that. No, that they blink. Like, I think in my mind I just always forget that. In my mind, my mind just pushes that out because, yeah, it looks so bad and makes no sense and didn't need to happen. Matt: I think he's— yeah, like, they didn't need to blink. It was fine. Luke: Fine. Matt: Yeah.

Luke: And actually making them like now later, it looks weird. Matt: Yeah, exactly. Like, it doesn't make it look real the way that he's— maybe he thinks it does. Luke: Like, it's, uh, it didn't change anything. Matt: Yeah. Uh, whatever. Um, he also said this week he was gonna do 3 more Star Wars movies, but then he just decided to retire instead. And I mean, we kind of already knew that, but, um, yeah. Luke: Oh well. But then at some stage I was kind of wishing he sort of maybe— I know, the last 3, because Disney destroyed them. And I would have, I would have liked to have seen what he was gonna do, but

Especially because with a lot of this, his hands were all over like the extended universe and stuff. So that would have been part of the universe still. It wasn't going to be like a Disney where, yeah, none of that exists. Matt: So, and we've heard before, he gave them his treatment and treatments for what they were going to be, and he came to Disney and Disney were like, nah, we're not gonna do that. Luke: But then also, I sometimes say I don't believe him on that because he's— for years he said he had this all planned out. Yeah. And then you watch him other times and it's like, no, you didn't. You came up with that just then on the spot.

And it's hard to believe what he says sometimes, I, I find. Matt: Yeah, like, you always planned for Anakin to make C-3PO? I hope that's not true because that's fucking stupid. Yes, like, it doesn't make any sense. Luke: Well, even in the making of Return of the Jedi he's saying like, we're trying to come up with a reason for like Luke to sort of lash out. And then that's when they came up with the idea that Luke and Leia, this brother and sister. And it's sort of like, yeah, it was not always— yeah, it wasn't always the plan. You came up with it then because you had them kiss in 2 movies and then the 3rd one they're finally related.

Matt: Yeah. Luke: And books that he had signed off on, like, because he signed off on all like a lot of the books and stories, especially at the start, like Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Yeah, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Luke's checking his sister changing. Yeah, he's checking her out when she's changing clothes. Matt: Like, of course, because they weren't siblings. Luke: They weren't. Matt: They were like— yeah, yeah, he just, uh, yeah. Luke: George, just, just don't lie to us. We know. Matt: Everybody knows. I don't know why he bothers.

So stupid. It's just pointless. Luke: But yeah, maybe would have liked to have known what he had the treatment for. Yeah, the next bout. Matt: That stuff aside, yes, he's— yes, he's full of shit. He didn't have all this stuff planned out, clearly, because it doesn't make any sense. Um, but I would like to see— because what, what the prequels have that the sequels didn't is that he was not afraid to just do something different, like, and they were interesting and creative in a way that the Disney ones are safe. Yes, like the prequels are not safe. That's, that's why they're not good in a lot of ways, is because he had all these ideas and they weren't all good ideas, but he, he

was just like, fuck it, I'm doing it anyway. Luke: And no one at that stage was telling him no. Matt: No. And so there's some stuff in the prequels that's really cool that you wouldn't— you just didn't get in, like, the, you know, the sequels, because they played it too safe. So I think it would have been cool to see what he did, whether it would be good or not. I think it would be more interesting. Luke: That— yes. Yep. But we'll never know now unless he tells us. Matt: I mean, he says a lot. I don't know why he's not just gonna tell us what it was. He says a lot. Luke: Yeah, because he's still talking about it, so you can't really say like, well,

Disney said you're not allowed to, because you're out there talking everything else. Matt: You know why? Because he didn't actually do it, Luke. That's why it never actually happened. He didn't write 3. He's just saying that. Luke: So his idea was there was going to be 3 more movies? Matt: Yeah, the— that's the idea. The idea is that there were going to be 3 more movies and then he stopped. Luke: Yes. And so he handed that over to Disney. I'd planned 3 more. Matt: The treatment, it just says, yeah, movie, next one, next one, next one. Luke: Yeah, see, that I would believe.

Matt: Yeah, because we've all seen the behind the scenes of The Phantom Menace where he sits down with his yellow notepad and a pencil and his How to Write a Screenplay books. And he, he writes down, uh, a young boy who works in a junkyard, and it's Anakin. And that's, that's, that is the idea that he had. Luke: And then they film his first script. Matt: Yeah. Oh yeah, in the case of the fucking Revenge of the Sith, that bit where he walks in and they've got the fucking concept art for the plants and they're building props and stuff like that, and he's like, huh, I better finish the script. I mean, not that that's uncommon, but like, it didn't need to be like that. Like, he did that to himself.

Luke: Yes, you gave yourself that deadline. Matt: Yeah, yeah, there are film productions where it ends up like that. That's because the business people are meddling. The whole point is that you have complete control. You could have done anything. You could have gone and written the script and sat on it until it was ready instead of— Luke: no. Matt: Anyway, he needs the money. Luke: He doesn't. Well, he sold Star Wars for $4 billion, but he's still worth a hell of a lot more. That's so much money because he only sold like the smallest part

of Star Wars. He still owns everything else associated with it. Yeah, yeah, like Lucasfilm. Um, what else? Matt: There's a new museum, actually. Luke: New museum? That's huge. Matt: Yeah, yeah, I gotta go check that out. Luke: Yeah, you should go to that. Where is it? Matt: California. Luke: Yep, you should go. It's close for you. Matt: It's not that close. It is the other side of the country. It's more expensive for me to get there than it is to get to fucking England, which

is weird. Luke: International flights are actually cheaper for us than domestic flights. Matt: Same, same. Luke: It makes no sense. Matt: Dan was over here and I looked at flights to go see him and like I mean, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say what he was doing, where he was. I mean, like, that's not my business. He wasn't that far away from me, let's just say that. Not that far. Yeah, it was insanely expensive. Luke: Yep.

Matt: I, I looked up flights, and just for funsies, I also looked up flights to fucking Cancun, and it was like a very minor percentage of the price to get to Cancun. Luke: Yeah, well, I'm gonna do 2 flights here. I'm gonna get a flight from me to Brisbane And then a flight from me to Vietnam. Matt: I'm gonna do— how much would it be for me to get to LA? Okay, Providence to LA. That's actually quite reasonable now that I'm looking at it. Museum after all, it's $300. Luke: Oh, that's not too bad. Matt: No, that's not too bad. I guess maybe I lied. I George Lucas'd. Luke: Brisbane. Uh, yeah, I'll go on the 10th of October.

Matt: How is that feasible? Where am I flying out of if I do that? From Providence Airport. Fuck, I'm going to LA. All right, that's not so bad. Luke: And then I'm gonna go from Canberra George Lucas Museum. Matt: The Lucas Museum of Narrative Art. Oh my God, look at this museum. Look at this fucking building. Luke: The building is beautiful just on its own. Matt: Jesus Christ, it looks like something from the Star Wars prequels. It's ridiculous. Like, I'm gonna put this in the, uh, in the notes so people can see, but like, it's just Ridiculous. Put it in under here with this museum.

Oh, so cool. And then where is this? Is this in, uh, LA? It might actually not be because he's not— he's in San Francisco more. Where is it? Where is it? Luke: All right, my example hasn't gone well either. Matt: Oh really? No, it's in Los Angeles. Luke: Okay, why are you giving me— I want the— so yeah, I can— why is Air Canada flying me? Matt: Oh, that's— I've flown to Australia from Air Canada from here. Luke: No, but this is for me to go to Brisbane. Matt: Okay, that's weird.

Luke: Uh, $300 for me to go from Canberra to Brisbane. Matt: Okay. Luke: Or for me to go to Hanoi— so that's like a 2-hour flight to Brisbane. Yeah, yeah. Or for me to go to Hanoi, which is like a 10-hour flight, is $790. Matt: Okay, so all right, we've proved ourselves sort of right. Luke: Yeah, something's changed recently. Yeah, it used to be a lot more expensive to fly domestic and a lot cheaper to fly international. Matt: Well, I guess I'm gonna go to the Lucas Museum. Luke: Yeah, I guess. Well, I'm not going to Brisbane, I'm going to Melbourne. Matt: That's true. Uh, somewhere else we're going.

Luke: The after party. Matt: What's the after party? Explain. Luke: We're gonna go talk for another 10, 15, 20, 30 minutes, an hour, depends on how we're feeling. Where— yeah, we're just gonna— but that one's the one you don't get for free. That one you've got to pay for. Matt: Yeah, so you're gonna go to— Luke: you go to patreon.com/multiplenerdgasm. First, there's $1 a month, you get the show early. For $5 a month, you get the after party, and you can give us more. Not opposed to that. Yeah, but yeah, anything, go to our Discord.

I forgot, I was talking to— I was talking to— I was on the Discord, I was making fun of you. You promised something to our listener that you have to give them now. Matt: Wait, what have I done? Luke: Your Read or Die app. Matt: Oh, who said— who asked for that? Luke: Darcy's asked for it. Matt: Oh, I'll do it. Yeah, yeah, I'm logging into Discord now. Uh, I'll do that and, uh, we'll see you in the after party. Luke: See you soon.

Matt: If you want to demand access to the things I make, go to patreon.com for free. You can get access to Discord and you can say, send me a link to Read or Die. Luke: All right, bye everyone. Bye. That's all for this week. Thank you for listening and we hope you enjoyed the show. Matt: If you enjoyed it, then please subscribe on iTunes to receive episodes automatically. Luke: We'll see you next time.