PAX Aus 2026, Flying Teslas & AI Mashups

Intro: Multiple nerdgasm. Luke: I am back. I have returned from PaxCon, Matt: from Paxland. Luke: Paxland, because that's the whole thing this year, is like the fun top type of thing. Matt: Yep, they did that at PAX East too. Yeah. Luke: Oh, so we're just copying you guys now? Matt: Yeah, well, I mean, I mean, it's literally the same company. Luke: It is the same company. It does make stuff a lot easier to do. They could have the same pins. Matt: Yeah, it's probably better for you because they, they like figure out what didn't work about it. Why not? Luke: Oh yeah.

Matt: And then by the time they get to you, it's like a well-oiled machine. Although they can't take everything to Australia, presumably. Luke: No. But it was great as always. Yeah, love it. Still have a record for not winning a medal. Matt: No medal still. Luke: Still no medal. Matt: Did you teach somebody to play a board game who then beat you in the tournament? Luke: Yes, twice. Matt: Really? What's wrong with you? Luke: I'm great. I'm a great teacher. Maybe I just can't play King of Tokyo. Matt: Maybe you should have been a teacher. Luke: Maybe that's it. Although I did buy a new copy of King of Tokyo while I was there.

Matt: You wore out your old one rehearsing for the tournament? Luke: Well, no, I actually only play it 6 times a year when I'm at PAX. Matt: Oh, so you didn't have it? Luke: I know I own a copy. I brought a new copy of it. There's a Godzilla version of it. Matt: Oh, oh, oh, oh, I see, I see, I see. Luke: Yeah, so it's a new version of King of Tokyo, and I just saw it, and a few of the people— because we meet up the same people at the tournament every year, there's a few of us that— that's what we— Matt: professional King of Tokyo players. Luke: Professional King of Tokyo players. Matt: Yeah. Luke: Um, we all saw this new version, fell in love, and we all purchased a copy. I've never played Godzilla.

Matt: Okay, I've never played King of Tokyo. Luke: It's a very— it's a good entry game for people, so it's not hard to learn. Matt: Sure. Luke: What, what, Matt: hard to teach? Luke: It's easy to teach. It's hard for me to win 2 games in a row. Um, no, what I— it is sort of luck-based with the rolling of the dice, what you get. Sure, your games always change, but we always tell people if they're going to buy a copy to actually buy King of New York, not King of Tokyo. Matt: Okay, is that about Trump? Luke: No, it's not. It's just King of New York has a bit more game mechanics to it, so you can still play it the same way as King of Tokyo, but there's a little bit more to King of New York. And if you play King of Tokyo a lot, you sort of, you want that little bit more. So, but I now have King of Tokyo Godzilla, and it's got beautiful wooden dice. It's— Matt: I'm gonna make a note to check out King of Tokyo. Luke: Yep, it's a great game.

Matt: All right, all right, but no medals yet again. Luke: No medals. Matt: Have you ever gotten a medal? I'm sure you got one. Luke: No, I got a pity medal one year. Matt: That's right, I knew you got one. I couldn't remember, and I knew there was something about it that was funny. Luke: Yeah, it's not an official medal, it was a pity medal I got one year for— Matt: all right, Luke: because they felt bad for me. Matt: If you were a narcissist, you would just say that you got a medal, so I guess this goes to show you're a good person, that you're not— Luke: I just like playing the game, and I actually do like getting people to play the game. And I, I'll get random people, no, just join in with us.

Matt: And Luke: yeah, yeah, no, yes, you know, win. And then some of them will go on television and brag about it. Matt: Yes, Luke: yeah, race well. Matt: I'm still dirty about that. Luke: It's the way she was talking about it. She was talking about how she went on to win and she's playing against these people who are really good. No, we play for fun, and I taught you to play. It wasn't like you came along and you were the name check. Matt: That's what you wanted. Luke: Yes, Matt: it's okay to say that she beat you. She just has to say who you are. Luke: Yes, and I was helpful through it. Not that you came along great. That's, that's the bit that gets me.

Matt: Trashed all of these professional King of Tokyo players. Luke: Yeah. Oh, what else did I get up to? Oh, I found out I'm good at pinball. Matt: As in traditional full-scale pinball? Luke: Full-scale pinball. Um, right, so they had the PAX Pub this year, which I spent a lot of time at? Matt: Pax Pub. Luke: Pax Pub, nice. In the entertainment center, so you don't have to walk across the road to get a beer. You'd have a beer in there. Matt: Oh nice, they do that at East. It was— it's, uh, Voodoo Ranger. Was it— was it sponsored by anybody? Luke: I don't know, I just kept going to the bar and go, give me— Matt: it's not me attempting to like show any company or anything, I'm just curious if it works the same way. Luke: I probably would— it was— I know this year was— they had a big thing with a sponsor with a whiskey company, The Kraken. Oh, Kraken Whiskey. That was a big thing. Rum. They had a big thing for that, but I don't drink rum, so I just went to a bar. Give me a couple of lagers.

Matt: Again, not sponsored. I just— I'm just an alcoholic. Luke: Yes, if you want to sponsor us, we're here. Matt: Yeah, there's an alcohol company out there that wants to sponsor us. I'm sure that's incredibly problematic, and we're, we're here for it. Luke: Okay, look, I just need— even need to be lager or a gin, and you've got me, and I'll drink it every episode. Matt: I'll drink scotch or rum or probably anything, honestly. Luke: Yep, we'll do it if you want to sponsor us. We'll do it. Matt: We're getting distracted by, uh, delicious alcohol. Luke: Um, then they had pinball and Daytona there, just free play. Matt: Oh nice. Luke: So I managed to get the high score on both of them.

Matt: Yeah, right. What pinball machine was it? Luke: Or was it— oh, Iron Maiden. Matt: Ah, cool. Luke: So you got to listen to like 666, the bass, you get to listen to the music. And I just, for some reason, this pinball machine just spoke to me. Matt: Yeah, right. Luke: And they do that now. Matt: They have, they have, um, recordings of people's voices in the machine, Luke. Luke: Oh yes, Matt: it's not actually the machine speaking to you. Luke: No, but I felt the machine just— we connected on a level that I've never connected with a pinball machine before.

Matt: I remember I think it was a PAX. We were in Melbourne and we went out and you and Jenna were playing the Creature of the Black Lagoon pinball machine at some little diner somewhere. I don't know why I just remembered. Luke: Oh yes, that was a great night. Matt: You have played pinball before. I was just— Luke: I like pinball. Matt: Yeah, because I think it was on free play. Luke: So yeah, it's just normally I'm not good at it. Matt: Um, Luke: but I just enjoy it. Matt: You've gotten good somehow by not doing it for— Luke: yes,

Matt: 10 years. Luke: Yeah. And like when I said like I got the high score, no one got close to me when I was there anyway. Like, yeah, I got like 250 million and people were going, I've got a good score of 30 million. So Matt: yeah, right, Luke: I was proud of that. Matt: Well, now that you're talking about it on a public forum, was there somebody there who taught you how to do it that you should mention so that you don't become one of your competitive people? Luke: I just learned by myself. Matt: All right, fine. Luke: Just another game, board game. Matt: Go on. Luke: This one, I will be honest, what drew me to the board game first may have been one of the cute people displaying the game.

Matt: Okay, but Luke: then I Matt: end up buying the game, right? Luke: It's Dicey Gnomes. Matt: Dicey Gnomes. Luke: Yeah, so it's a game where you sort of— it's the art style and the whole idea, it reminds me a little bit of Munchkin. Matt: Okay. Yep. Luke: So it's just a fun, cute art style where you gotta— you're playing to attack and defend people, and you roll dice to up your attack skills, and— but you hide your cards. No, it's just really good. I haven't opened it yet. Dicey Gnomes. Matt: There you go. Luke: Yeah, no, that's what I quite like this year. I didn't see— didn't look at too many of the indie games,

Matt: like video Luke: games. Video games, there was nothing that was jumping out at you? Matt: Yeah, yeah, I had to scan through what was there. Um, you know, the big one last year I was excited about was The Drifter, and I was trying to see if they were there. They were not. Luke: They were not. Matt: No, you know, they're busy. Yeah, now actually they're probably on vacation. They should be. Luke: Yeah, they're in the down period of their development cycle. Matt: Well, they just sold the fucking movie rights, so they're probably celebrating. Luke: Don't blame them. Matt: Um, yeah, I didn't see anything like that. I don't mean to like poo-poo anything that was there. There wasn't anything that I was familiar with. And, uh, no, and obviously I'm not in Australia anymore, so I don't see the stuff that's going on. So Luke: yeah, there was nothing. I think next year will be good again once a few of these games have a bit more time to cook, because a few of them, like the Drifter and things, like the games that have been seen for a while, they're all now out. So all the games, yeah, start a new cycle, so it's waiting for that. So really it was just the board games for me this year.

Matt: Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, the Drifter I followed because, I mean, it's just 2 guys from Melbourne, and I don't think I really would know much about that game except I was following it for so long. Um, whereas, yeah, there's not anything, you know, down under that I, that I know about at the moment. Luke: Yeah, just, yeah, just, I'm looking forward to it. Things will change. Like, it's still great and it's great to see some things, but yeah, just nothing hard on the Matt: board games. Luke: Went hard board games this year, spent a lot of money on board games. Matt: Were there any big publishers at it? Luke: Sega was there. Matt: Okay. Sega's not a big publisher anymore. They've got the '90s. Luke: Um, they were showing off Stranger Than Heaven. It's a new Yakuza. Matt: Oh yeah, you like those. Luke: Um, I didn't go and look at that because that comes out in January and I'm gonna play that, so

Matt: fuck it, Luke: why wait in Matt: line? Yeah. Luke: Yep. Um, the other thing that they had there was Alien: Isolation 2. Matt: Oh really? Luke: I really wanted to go and see. I think it was more of a sneak peek about here's what it's going to be. But the line for that was just far too long. Matt: Yeah, I bet. Yeah, Luke: like it was like even once you got into the sort of area where they're showing it, they go, oh, it's going to be half an hour from here. Matt: Wow, that's old school PAX. Luke: Yeah, and I was just, look, there's no way I can stand still in a line now. I'm too old for that. My knees are gone,

Matt: man. The first PAX— not just the first PAX, the first few times we went to PAX, that's what we did. Luke: Yeah, Matt: like we was just waiting in line to see things. That's how we saw that infamous Alien Colonial Marines demo, Dave and I, when Randy Pitchford came in and shook our hands and, Luke: and Matt: lied to us. And Dave would never forgive him. So funny. Yeah, Luke: well, Matt: you could have probably organized to see that Had you been on top of things? Luke: I, I could have, and I decided— I kept getting distracted with things I wanted to do first on the day. Yeah, because I could have gone in there straight away, gone in, seen it. Matt: What I mean is, I don't mean to say— oh, for listeners, viewers, I mean because we have press badges. So yeah, can I get a demo? And they do that. Yeah, yeah, Luke: I could have, but I,

Matt: I skipped the line is what I'm saying. Luke: I know I could have, but I always feel bad. Matt: Yeah, I don't like to do it. Luke: I need to do it, but I couldn't. But no, I keep getting distracted. And I'll tell you what, can I go into my pet peeves of just con life? Yeah, a little bit. Matt: Yeah, let's do that. Luke: Oh my God, Matt: Luke's got a bee in his bonnet. Luke: People need to learn how to walk Matt: like babies. Luke: Yes, they need to start baby level and start learning that again. Like, I struggle walking. Yeah, I also— I also have

Matt: a Luke: hard time because I can't sidestep as easy as I used to. Matt: Sure. Luke: Especially when I'm using a walking stick, I can't really push off my left side to go around people. People, stop pushing in front of me and then stopping. Matt: Um, yeah, like No, I feel this. Luke: Nowhere to go because I'm just walking. Matt: My spine thing that— at least if you don't know, I had a, I had a nerve issue in my spine recently. I had surgery to fix it. And, and one of the big things towards like the end of before the surgery— it's better now— is that yes, stopping once I've got momentum, it's not gonna happen because I will fall forward because I— yes, I just didn't have any foot— like, yeah. And so I feel that like if— Luke: yeah, Matt: once you you're kind of loping along, get out of the way. I'm like, God, stop. Luke: The other people who are just— I've got to stop. Like, whenever I stop, I make sure to step to the side. I'm out of the way as much as next to a wall or booth or whatever, just out of the way. But these people just stopping in front of me and it's in the middle of the walkway.

Matt: Yeah. Luke: Or sometimes you'll be walking down the side, they won't have just stopped, but they've got a whole group of them just standing there having a conversation in the middle of the walkway. Like Yeah, can you not see what's happening around you? Matt: The one that it only annoys me because I'm a— I'm, I'm like a neurotic and there's fucking signs that say don't do this is, yes, stopping in the middle of the aisle and taking photos of cosplays next to a sign that says don't stop here and take photos of cosplays, go over there. Yes, where there's a space. Luke: Or, or not following the, the lines that you're meant to follow for a store where they sort of zigzag back and forth, they walk straight across. No, I, I follow that. Matt: Yeah, yeah. Luke: Um, scalpers were annoying me. Matt: Ah yeah, PAX East, always. You wanna— I wanna buy a badge. You want to sell your badge? Fuck off. Luke: Oh no, we don't have that. Scalpers in there? Matt: Oh, Luke: so like Pokémon cards? Oh, I got no issues like selling singles and stuff, but there's like the brand new packs that people are selling for 3 and 4 times what they're worth. And these are actual retail stores, and

Matt: oh, Luke: that just feels dirty to me. Matt: Sure. Luke: Like, no, you should be selling at the recommended retail price. Matt: Yeah. Luke: And Matt: yeah, so that's collector store, Luke. It doesn't work like that. Yeah. Luke: Oh, I can tell you what the big new collector game is at the moment. It's League of Legends. Matt: Is it? Luke: Yeah, people are going crazy for that, like running to get to that store in the morning,

Matt: like a A card game? Luke: Yeah. Matt: Oh, I didn't know that was a thing. Luke: And the same thing is people are rushing out to buy it so they can hoard it to sell later. And I don't know, that just ruined— that ruins it for me, just the people buying it to sit on, not to play. Matt: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's because of Star Wars figures. I think it all goes back to the fucking Star Wars figures. Luke: But yeah, they were the ones that are worth money, the ones that you couldn't get. Matt: Actually, I guess I don't think it is anymore. Baseball cards probably precede Star Wars figures, but I think Luke: the whole comic books and Matt: everyone— Luke: but I don't know, people, the market just seems to be crazy for them at the moment.

Matt: Yeah, yeah. Like you said, there's a lot of— the internet in particular has enabled people to lazily Mass purchase them and then sell them for more than they're worth. Well, more than they're worth is hard with something like that because they are worth that now. Luke: That's what people are willing to pay for it. Matt: Yeah. Luke: Um, GameStop— I know in America, uh, is it GameStop you've got? Matt: Uh, we have got GameStop. GamesStop. Yeah. Yes, Luke: they, they've got a $10,000 bundle you can get for Pokémon cards. Matt: $10,000? Luke: $10,000. Matt: Oh, $10,000. Luke: $10,000. Christ. For Pokémon cards, and you might win one, but they're also artificially inflating the price of their cards. I mean, you can win a $100,000, like $150,000 card, but the last time that card was sold, it was sold for like $40,000. It's like,

Matt: it's shit. Luke: It's insane, this. And it's just stopping people from actually who want to play, which I find sad. Matt: My daughter was given a Pokémon card from a kid at school, and now she's into Pokémon slightly. She's literally never seen anything to do with them, but this kid Liam at her school loves Pokémon, gave her a Pokémon card. Uh, I forget which one. Jenna knows. Um, but he had a— apparently he likes Pikachu because Luke: I Matt: guess people still just like Pikachu. And so Lyra loves Pikachu now. Hasn't seen anything, doesn't know anything about Pikachu except expressly what this person has told her about Pikachu, but she loves Pikachu and she says, Pika Pika. Luke: My nephew was the same thing. He even had a pile of Pokémon cards, like never seen the show, but yeah, didn't know how to play. But he would sit there, now you have to play with me, and he wouldn't know how the game worked. Yeah, but he'd still try and play with me. Matt: Yeah, exactly. Luke: I can teach you, I know how to play this. Matt: And then he could beat you and brag about it. Luke: Yes. As long as he gave me credit, it's all good.

Matt: No, Luke: but, and, but your daughter is wrong. Usually she's not the best. No, Psyduck. Matt: Psyduck? You Luke: like Psyduck? Matt: Magikarp? That's the Psyduck. Who is my favorite Pokémon? I don't know. I never watched Pokémon either. I know I was obviously very aware of it, but I never watched it or anything. Luke: I caught a little bit of it because I was working at a toy store at the time, and that's when like Toys R Us used to have like, you come in on a Sunday and play the card game there. Um, so, and that's why I know Psyduck was useless. And I don't know, I just— he's my guy. Matt: I'm gonna go Meowth. Luke: Meowth? Matt: Yeah, Team Rocket. Luke: Talking one or Team Rocket?

Matt: I'm gonna say— I gotta admit, I don't know anything. Luke: I, I, I— that's you. Matt: I know what Team Rocket is. Yeah, Luke: we've reached the peak of my knowledge. Matt: Yeah, I still play Pokémon Go. Luke: I play Pokémon Go with people at work, Matt: huh? Luke: And I go, oh, I've got such and such, and does anyone want to join me for this? And I go, I've told you, I don't know what these words mean. Just tell me if you need me to join something. Matt: I haven't played Pokémon Go since there was— it was like during that period when it was very big. And we went to East Grange, walked around one day, played it, and I think that's literally the last time I played it. Luke: Well, I actually played a new one at PAX, which is— might be the photo for this thing— is the Pikmin version of it.

Matt: Is that what that is? Pikmin Pokémon Go thing? Luke: Yep. Matt: Interesting. Luke: Yeah, so it's a Pokémon Go thing. So you plant seeds and then you have to walk to have those seeds grow, and then you can put little clothing on them. And I haven't got too far into it Matt: Interesting. Luke: Yes, but yeah, it's just another version of it. It's just a version of a way to get people to walk. Matt: It's interesting because Pokémon Go, I think, was so big because Pokémon was already a phenomenon. Pikmin is not on the scale of Pokémon. Luke: Like, I know they also tried it with Harry Potter. Yeah, Matt: that's what I mean. What I'm saying is, I don't know, obviously I don't think this Pikmin one would ever be as big as Pokémon Go, but that's not to say that it wouldn't also be Harry Potter, that Luke: one's already closed,

Matt: right? Luke: That shut down. Well, Harry Potter was Matt: problematic, Luke: but I don't think Harry Potter was good for it either. Like, Pokémon just works because they're out there in the world, catch them. Matt: Yeah, Luke: but I forget what I was leaving. Oh, you're just battling stuff. I don't remember actually what the idea of the Harry Potter one was. The Pikmin one is it is about planting seeds and walking to— I can sort of give that. But yeah, Pokémon just works. Matt: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Pokémon is like the perfect fit for it because it's like you're out in the world and you're capturing these creatures, and that's, that's what Pokémon is. Yeah, you don't have to like twist the source material to make it work. Luke: I think they're also planning on doing a Ghostbusters one at one stage many years ago. Matt: Work— that could work, catching ghosts. Luke: Yeah.

Matt: Boston Ghosts. Luke: Boston Ghosts. Matt: Boston makes me feel good, Luke. Luke: It makes everyone feel good, just Matt: saying. Luke: You don't have to put that in song though. Matt: No, it's— yeah, definitely don't write a song about that. Luke: What's that? Matt: You're kidding. That's nice. All right, um, did you play the Pikmin thing or you just saw it? We got a photo of you as a Pikmin. Pikmin? Luke: Yeah, because I signed up for it because I could get a special seed at PAX, and I wanted that special seed, and I got that special seed.

Matt: He's spreading his seed at PAX. Okay. Luke: And that was really— that's all that— they were the major things for me. Always loved it. Always did the same thing I do every year— forgot to go to panels. Matt: Oh really? Yeah. Okay. Luke: So just get caught up with just chatting to people, and I'm great asking people what they love, and then I'll try and go and see what they saw. Matt: And Luke: that's where I found out about a couple of these games I ended up buying, was because I was talking to him. Oh, you should go play this, and I went and played that. Matt: Yeah, yeah, cool. Luke: But yeah, no, Matt: um, I did interrupt and distract you. Do you have any more pet peeves, or do we get through all of our old— Luke: I think that's—

Matt: I think those are the main gripes. Luke: They're the main ones. Just keep walking. Yeah, if you're gonna stop, move to the side. Scalpers, you're the scum of the earth, and I hate you. Matt: Yep, that's fair. Luke: Yeah, I think that's— that, that'll do me. Matt: All right, cool. My one— I've got one to add is Luke: just, oh, don't ask stupid questions. Matt: Oh, at panels? Luke: At panels, Matt: yeah. God, yeah. Luke: You go up with it, you know what you're gonna ask. If someone else asks, you leave the line. And don't try and get into the whole, you know, something special that only you two might know. No.

Matt: Yeah, Luke: ask a general Matt: The question should be 1 or 2 sentences at most. Yes, don't do— so this is the story I've told on this podcast many times before, and I, I'm telling you, this is the reason that Mike and Jerry stopped taking questions from the audience during their panels, is that somebody went up and told their fucking life story about how they'd written this screenplay and they've been working on it for years and years and years, and the question went on for so long that Mike sat down on the stage. He went for so long. And then the question was, I've got a copy of my script, could you give it to Wil Wheaton to give to Felicia Day? And then the answer was no. Next question, next question. And I Luke: swear to God, everyone's time— Matt: don't do that. Don't fucking do that. So tedious. Luke: If you get into a one-on-one, shoot your shot. But Matt: sure, yeah, if you talk to people afterwards or whatever, yeah, Luke: yeah. But in that situation, no, that's just— you don't do that. Matt: No, no, it's awkward. Luke: Yeah, for everyone involved.

Matt: It's funny too because I would like— I mean, we— I, I feel awkward asking people questions even when we do have like doing interviews or doing like anything. I— when I— if I get up to ask a question, I'm gonna make sure it's a good question, and then halfway through I start to doubt, I'll go sit down because I'm like, you know what, no, it's Luke: fine. Matt: But that's— PAX is a place for, uh, all types. Luke: Yes. Yep. But that's— these PAX— these weren't PAX gripes, these are just convention gripes in general. You could— Matt: true— Luke: put any convention title and I would have the same issues. Matt: My, my gripe, my main gripe, uh, with conventions in general is the price of food and drinks. Like, come on. Luke: Actually, I got a shock. The beer wasn't actually— it was expensive, but not anymore. They're like being at a pub. It was like $12.50 for a can. Matt: Yeah, right. Luke: Like, it's a lot, but That's what I'm expecting. It wasn't $15.

Matt: I think they're like $10 or so, you know, when they do it here, which is, again, which is a lot, but like, Luke: it's a lot, but it's not over, over the top. But the food is always stupid. Have a hot dog for $20? Matt: No, it's ridiculous. Yeah. And they have a lot of options at PAX East too. Like, there's a whole food court in the— I don't know if you recall, in the convention center here in Boston, there's like a big food court kind of thing, but it's just so expensive. And it's not good. So we always, we always leave and go down to like the waterfront to get food, which I could do it. I was gonna— oh, that's my question actually. How many oysters did you eat? Luke: None. They didn't have the special on this year. Matt: What? Luke: And that's happened every now and again. They won't have the special on, so no oysters. Matt: That needs to go on the gripe list. Come on. Luke: I can't blame a convention for a pub next door not having a special on, but Matt: they should know, Luke. They should. Luke: Yes.

Matt: They know you're coming. Luke: I think they've— it's been shut down once, a couple of times when they've had something on there at the same time. Matt: And you're gonna say it's been shut down a couple of times because the oysters are— maybe it's best that they don't have them then. Luke: But yeah, no oysters this year. But I ate, um, probably about 6 salt and pepper quails. Matt: What the fuck? Luke: I love quail. Matt: Salt and pepper quail. Like, is it— they fry it? Luke: They fry it. Matt: Weird. Luke: It's, it's really weird as well. It's not like—

Matt: I don't think I've ever eaten it. I mean, I don't eat meat anymore, but I don't think I ever ate a quail when I did. Luke: It's not like some fancy restaurant or something. It's the food court at the casino. There's just— Matt: oh, that's a good food court, actually. Luke: That's a great food court. Matt: Yeah, Luke: there's this place and it's got fried salt and pepper quail, and I love it. And that's the only place I can ever have it. So whenever I'm in Melbourne, I eat 4 to 6 of them. Matt: They get— there's 4 little guys, there's 4 little quails coming. Luke: You can actually eat the bones because the bones are— Matt: oh, Luke: hard either.

Matt: So not Luke: all the bones, but Matt: I've had, um, they do this thing. This is the thing about Australia that I think is good, right, that we— that's lacking here in America. Um, is because there's so many— Australia's got so many different cultures, particularly like Southeast Asian and those areas. There's a lot of— well, not just there, everywhere. There's a lot of food, I guess, is what I'm saying, from all around the world. And so you have like restaurants that have just really interesting different stuff, whereas here I think it's all kind of homogenized. Like everything in America, when it gets here, gets kind of Americanized, whereas Luke: you don't want nothing too fancy. Matt: Yeah, it all gets like the— like it's all just kind of shaved down to like— and American palate, whereas in Australia I think everything is a little more like you get more of an idea of what it's actually like. And one of the things in, uh, God, what's the fucking suburb? Doesn't matter. There's a bunch of, um, like Asian food styles of different Asian foods, like Indonesian and like Singaporean and like Chinese and like, and, um, Japanese, like ramen place. And they're all, I think, different because they actually do it the way that They did. And one of the things is the soft-boned chicken. Luke: Yes. Matt: Where they like pressure cook it Luke: and Matt: it's like a chicken where you just eat the bones and all. Luke: Yes.

Matt: Yeah, Luke: it's weird to think of yourself doing it, but yeah, you tell you to eat it. Matt: Yeah. So I can't— I just miss— I mean, like, I don't eat meat anymore, but I just miss the fact that the food here, like the interesting stuff like that, they wouldn't do that because they'd be like, Americans aren't going to eat that. Luke: No, Matt: whereas in Australia they're like, fuck it, this is the food. Luke: Yeah, where's the fried skin? Matt: Yeah. Oh, they eat fried skin here. Luke: Yeah, I want that. I, I watched a cooking show once and it was showing like some convention in Texas or something where you could just buy fried chicken skin. Matt: That's disgusting. Luke: Walk around with a little bucket of fried chicken.

Matt: They're those big turkey legs at, um, ren fairs here. Luke: Yeah, Matt: those are interesting. Again, I'd never eaten one of those. Luke: Yeah, but it's okay. Matt: All right, so that's Pax. Uh, Luke: anything else? I'll think of something. I've got some other stuff I've gotta remember. I meant to remember today. Matt: You know what you could do? You could write things down. Luke: I should. I actually got a couple of recordings that I and I wrote stuff down in notes that I forgot to re-listen to. Matt: There you go. Luke: And read.

Matt: Well, you're getting there. You did half of the job. Luke: I did half of it. I've done half. I've got interviews on cameras from years ago that I've never done anything with. Matt: There you go. Luke: I do half the work. It's just the second half that I struggle with. Matt: Yeah. All right, we're getting there, guys. Luke: We're trying. Well, gentle. Matt: We could do some, uh— I'm always gentle with you, Luke, you know that. Luke: Yes, I know that, and I thank you. Matt: We've got some news and stuff to talk about this week. Um, we've got some follow-up. This is a brief piece of follow-up about the Alec Baldwin documentary that I mentioned. Yeah, and it's just to say there's been some reviews now. People have seen it, and one of the major complaints, which doesn't surprise me— Luke: you don't get to see him pull the trigger.

Matt: You don't get to see that. But also, you don't really hear a lot about Helena Hutchins. Oh, it's about— it's, it's, uh, and again, this doesn't surprise me. Apparently the documentary makes it all about the poor struggle of Alec Baldwin that this horrible thing happened to, where he was accused of murdering this woman when it was an accident. And it's all— it frames it in a way that apparently some reviewers were uncomfortable with because it's like, no, this poor woman who got shot. That's poor Alec Baldwin. Like, it's not nice that it happened to him, but it just— it kind of basically the, the, um, they said it almost erases her from the story because it's not a— it makes it about— it's all about him. Luke: Oh God. Matt: Which I, I haven't seen Luke: it. Yeah, I could sort of see it, but Matt: I haven't Luke: seen it. Matt: That is what the documentary is about though. And because it does— it makes it all about him and his family and how he has to talk to his family about how like he's shot this woman. And like, yeah, they apparently— the tone of it is just a bit— I don't know. So, um, Luke: I'm gonna skip this, this documentary. This one's not for me. Matt: I'll watch it, but I— oh yeah, I'll bear that in mind that, you know, really what we should be focusing on is the fact that this poor woman lost a lot, you know. And, and it's, it's not nice that it happened to Alec Baldwin, but come on, her and her family are the real victims here. Luke: Oh, she was just there doing her job.

Matt: Yeah, literally. Yeah. So, um, and, and just on the documentary note, um, You Can See Everything is out. Luke: Yes, good things about it, but I'm Matt: gonna see it so bad. I'm gonna try this week. Luke: I, I searched for it. It's not actually showing here. Matt: At all? Luke: Not that I've been able to find. Matt: All right, Luke: so I'm Matt: gonna have to— Luke: interesting. But I've also found out it's not— it doesn't finish when she goes to jail. It also continues on and it focuses on him, and evidently he's just as much of a nutcase as she is.

Matt: All right, I'm gonna— I can't wait to see it. So there was— I guess I was— I think most of the Theranos stuff, I was— it happened when I was hard, like, moving over here. I think a lot of it. So I was aware of it. Like, was it as big a news in Australia? Maybe? Luke: No, not really. Not— Matt: yeah, maybe that's why, because everybody here knows about her. And then, yeah, there's the, um, we started watching— there's a Hulu TV series about Elizabeth Holmes with, um, Amanda Seyfried as Elizabeth Holmes, and she's very good in it. And it's about that. And we watched— there's an HBO documentary that's also about it, which is very interesting because I don't know, I'm guessing you can see everything will reveal. It's hard to know if she was a, like, a straight-up con artist, or if she was, um— they focus a lot on— she was a big fan of, like, Edison and all this kind of Silicon Valley, like, fake it till you make it kind of stuff. Fake it till you make it is, like, a phrase that's used a lot in the documentary. And so it's hard to know, um, for me Did she lie about the fact that this machine worked? If anybody doesn't know, Theranos was this company that basically she wanted to simplify blood testing so that you could take a couple of drops of blood from a finger and run like up to 200 blood tests that you normally have to take vials of blood for, right? And it was like this revolutionary thing because it's like, oh, we don't have to do these fucking needles in everyone's arm anymore. We can do— Luke: it's going to make life so much easier for everyone. It's going to be amazing. Matt: But the short version is it didn't work. Uh, and eventually, in order to keep the company going, they had to, to go back to taking vials of blood, and they were just running those through normal machines and pretending that they were using their stuff. And it was basically— it was fraud in the end. Luke: And but people lost their life because of it, and Matt: because they were doing a terrible job Luke: of— Matt: yeah, the blood tests. Luke: Yeah, they couldn't keep up with

Matt: Yeah, it was a big— but it's interesting when you watch the documentary, the way that it like spirals into that is interesting because it's kind of like, it seemed— maybe it seems like she meant well, but she just like— it's something— is she just mentally not there and didn't— well, it's so hard to know. Luke: Here's something that's in the documentary that I've heard about which might explain sort of where you're coming from. So Nathan Field is talking to her and she's like, I didn't do anything wrong in all this. He sits down and shows her the Albert Consello Who's on First bit. Yeah, yeah, first, who's on second. She's laughing, goes, so what was funny about that? Oh, she didn't know, they didn't know the name. But, and tries to find out, no, the whole— it's about who's on first. And she's, I don't know, I didn't get that. Like, yeah, she— Matt: yeah, I think, yeah, she's very— she's focused on the success of it. And not on the consequences of the lying. Like, Luke: yeah, but it does sound like there is something there that she maybe doesn't quite understand. Matt: No, I think, yeah, I think, yeah, because people say, oh, she's like a psychopath. I, I, I mean, I'm not going to diagnose, but it's— I, I find it very interesting. Like, she thought, she thought it's— if we just keep trying, eventually it will work. So it's okay if we lie and say that it works for now. To get the money to keep going. I think that's what, that's what happened. Luke: Um, I found out we're getting it in Australia in November, so I'll be going to see it in November. Matt: Yeah, all right, cool. I'm excited. I'm gonna try and see it this week because I might try and see Luke: it earlier, Matt: and I'm interested to find out whether she's insane. Luke: I should need to see it because, yeah, we didn't get— I, I think we in Australia I don't know if it was just me not paying attention at the time, but I don't remember hearing a lot about her. I remember hearing about the situation, but I don't think we really got much on her.

Matt: Well, my general read on it was that she was a con artist, but I'm not sure that's the case. I think she's not well. I think it's more a case of that. And like, she may have actually thought it was okay, which is kind of more disturbing, to be honest. Luke: Yes. Matt: Yeah. Luke: Yes. Matt: Like, she thought Yeah, we're doing this because eventually we'll change the world and revolutionize this thing. She just ignored the fact that people were dying. Luke: Yes, because if we get past this little hiccup— Matt: yes, oh yes, I'm lying, but it's for a good purpose kind of thing. I think that's maybe her headspace, which is kind of scarier in a way. Luke: Yes, but we'll wait and see. Matt: Um, did you see The new Tesla. Did you see the new Tesla? Luke: I saw the new Tesla. They are struggling, aren't they?

Matt: This was no doubt one of the most impressive demonstrations of a car ever in history, but how fucking pointless. Luke: No one ultimately— Matt: like, I, I— the, the stuff this car was able to do, if you haven't seen this demonstration, you got to watch this. It's incredible. But there is no way a car on the road is going to be doing any of this. Luke: No, you cannot be legally be able to drive that with that setup like that. Matt: Fly your car over a bunch of other cars to get to— like, what? Luke: The thing I found funny about it as well is they're using like— because it jumped over all the versions of the Teslas that are out there, like the truck, even the Cybertruck, which has been recalled. Yeah, why would you have that in an ad? Matt: Yeah. Oh man, I was like, again, undeniably fucking awesome, but like, why? Why does it do that? Like, you can't— and Okay, to, to give some— like, like, some of the stuff it can do is impressive. Like, it's got that, that downforce suction thing where it can literally drive up the wall. Like, it drives straight up a wall and then upside down. But that's impressive, and that means it can corner better. Yeah. Okay, that's cool, Luke: cool. But yeah, Matt: yeah, does it need to go upside down? Luke: Like, no.

Matt: Why, why, why does it do that? Like, it's cool, but, um, yeah, very strange. Luke: I don't— I think that Tesla, I think they're trying to go for that look at this cool stuff like they used to be, right? Remember when Elon Musk was awesome and he came out with like the boring company, the flamethrower, and he was there? It was fun. Matt: That was his thing. Luke: All excited. Matt: They're in, in, uh, not in the new book— the new book's terrible— one of the older books about him, it talks about how, yes, he was very, um, into this idea that you need to get people emotionally interested in something, you know, like electric cars and all that kind of stuff. And that is true. And when he— when they were doing, um, SpaceX stuff and talking about going to Mars, he was saying they want to send mice to Mars and, and have like livestream the mice, and you give the mice names. And because he said, and I think this is probably true, people will become invested in the lives of these mice on Mars and become interested in space exploration and that in a way that they're not when it's boring and like it's just rockets going up because no one cares about that. But if you put the mice and then, but then the investors were like, that's so fucking expensive to send mice. Like, it's not, no, we're not doing that. And I think, I think he was right about that. Like, you do need a hook. And that's, I think you're right. I think that's what this is. It's him trying to go, look at this, because everybody is looking. But then also now everybody's going, Luke: Why? Why? Yeah, it's not like before when it was— he's not fun anymore. He used— everyone said he was fun. Now we're getting to know him more and it's like, yeah, no, you're a dick. Matt: Yeah, ever now everyone's like, what's he up to? Luke: Yeah, Matt: yeah. Luke: So yeah, it's cool, but

Matt: I mean, it's fucking cool, Luke: but it's really fucking cool. It's like, you're not gonna— you're not gonna be able to— the version of that car that you saw, you will not be able to drive. Matt: No, I think, right, if, if I had been there in person and watched that, you know, a lot of journalists were there. And that's the thing too, if you think it's fake, it's not fake. Like, there were people there. Like, the car fucking did that. I mean, it's all autonomous. There wasn't anyone in the car or anything like that. I think you could never put a human in the car to do that. Luke: No, no, no one had control of that. That was Matt: It was all computer controlled, but it's still— it was real. Uh, but you will— I swear to God, you will never in your life see a car actually do that on the road. Like, Luke: or if you do, something has gone terribly wrong. Matt: Those cars were, I bet, purpose-built. I bet you they had like a bunch of the cars and they were all purpose-built for the specific thing they did in the demo. That would be my guess. If it was one car That's slightly more impressive that it did everything, the one car. But yeah, Luke: but yeah, if, if you were in that car, you would have whiplash. Like, regardless how bad— like, yeah, it's not safe. Matt: I did— there was some funny comments on the video, like, um, like the one where it does the— they call it the kickflip, which, Luke: yes,

Matt: undeniably fucking cool, where the car literally jumps and flips over all the tests and then Luke: lands perfectly Matt: and keeps going. And everyone was like, yeah, that's me at the Starbucks drive-in, drive-through, jumping over everybody. Like, you're never going to be able to have a car that does that. It's not— no, Luke: because what are you jumping over? Like, Matt: yeah, Luke: traffic? No, because there's traffic. Matt: It's just so odd. Luke: Like, it's cool, but no, I didn't— it didn't pull me back in this time. Matt: I think a lot of people are thinking like I am. That was cool, but what's the point of it? Like, yeah, Luke: it's just—

Matt: and then I can't help thinking too, I eventually— initially I thought, was it fake? Because there was that whole incident. There was 2 incidents, right? Tesla— this is Tesla again— the robots that were people in suits, right? That was a fucking disaster. Like, that was a marketing disaster. And then the other one was the robotaxi demo where they had people controlling them and they weren't actually autonomous. And then it's like, you need to stop doing that. Yeah, you can't, because now no one believes you. So my initial thought with this was this was fake, but there were people there who said they saw it. No, it happened. Yeah. Yeah, so I, I don't know. Luke: No, Matt: no, Luke: they're not for me. Matt: I'm not sure they were really— Luke: were with the start, but now they were also meant to start because they were the first. Matt: Yes. Something else to bear in mind, this, this new Tesla Roadster replaces the previously announced Tesla Roadster that they never actually made. So bear that in mind. They've demoed one before that they never actually made. Luke: And people have paid money, put deposits on them, and Matt: yeah, Luke: then you gotta wait. But no, they're awesome at first, but now other car manufacturers are caught up. And

Matt: yeah, there's some good electric cars out there. Luke: Better. Matt: Yeah, yeah. It's like the traditional car manufacturers have made electric cars and people seem to like them just fine, even though they were more like traditional cars. Like, there was something about I listened to a podcast once, they were talking about in the, the BMW electric cars, um, they're literally just the chassis from a normal car. Because when you get, you know, when you get in the car and you get in the back seat and there's like a hump in between the 2 seats in the back, that's because there's like the transmission drivetrain. The drivetrain goes— yeah, electric cars don't need to have that. No, but the BMW ones do because they're lazy and they just didn't bother Well, not lazy, but like it's just all the parts from a normal car, and people still prefer those to Teslas at the moment. I think there's more of those out there than there are. Luke: I start to see a lot of what they call—I think it's BYD—a lot of them are starting to be driven around. Matt: The Chinese company? Luke: The Chinese one. Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Luke: I think there's a lot more of them around. No, Matt: but I've seen demos of them in like in China from YouTube because Luke: they're—I think they're—they're. Sort of affordable.

Matt: Yeah, Luke: as well. Matt: Actually, I saw a demo of, um, somebody in a— I think it was— I'm sure it was a BYD doing— actually, I shouldn't say for sure, I don't know, but it was a, a self-driving demo in China, and it was almost more impressive than any of the ones here because it's a crowded street, because the population in China is just so different to, to like cities here, and the car navigated this busy street with people just walking across in front of it, and it was actually on it. Like, not— it wasn't doing anything fancy except not killing people. Luke: Yeah. Matt: So, which is impressive. Luke: You went to stop, knew when I can just squeeze, Matt: and it— and it didn't just like stop and freak out like a lot of the Waymos do and stuff. Luke: Yes, it goes, no, I'm gonna push forward a little bit here, people are gonna let me through. Matt: It made its way through. And, uh, Luke: yeah, okay.

Matt: I mean, this was a YouTuber in China. I don't know if money exchanged hands. I'm not— I don't know anything. I'm just gonna say, I'm sure there's somebody listening going, oh, Matt's buying into the Chinese propaganda, because I hear that as well. I have no fucking idea, right? I'm just saying I watched a video. I don't want to get involved in any of that. Luke: No, stay out of that. It's not worth it. Matt: Yeah, my car still runs on gasoline. Luke: I don't have a car. Matt: You have a scooter? I've got a bike though. Did you check if your scooter's still there? Luke: No, I still have it. I still need to go do that. Matt: Fucking hell, mate. Luke: Um, I need to call someone out. Matt: Okay, Luke: I need to call—

Matt: is it me? Luke: Mr. Mike Flanagan out. Matt: Mike Flanagan? All right, director of, uh of, uh, Oculus. Luke: Oculus, the new Carrie miniseries. Matt: Yeah, Luke: there's an article here where he sits down and talks about which Stephen King movie should never get a remake while he's sitting here doing a remake of a Stephen King movie. I think it's such a hypocritical move for him to go, you can't do that one because that one's perfect, but I'm just gonna do this one, that's fine. Matt: That's fair. Yeah, Luke: yeah, well, Matt: he's opinionated, um, which Luke: does he say actually when you do see the movie that he's talking about, you 100% agree you could not remake that movie.

Matt: What's the movie? Luke: Shawshank Redemption. Matt: Oh, oh, all right. Luke: You could— no, you could never remake that movie and it'd be as good as that. Matt: Yeah, Luke: the original, Matt: that'd be— yeah, maybe, I don't know. People, um, oh no, actually The Shining is divisive. So, um, I think people— Luke: I don't think a lot of people don't even realize that is Stephen King. They just— no, that's true, that was a good movie. Matt: Yeah, yeah, there's a few like that. Yeah, I was just thinking Sprite's so prolific and like all genres, all sorts of shit. Like, he's written so many things. Luke: When you're thinking like Stephen King, you think horror, and The Shawshank Redemption is not that.

Matt: No, but he wrote— yeah, he's written all sorts of stuff. Luke: Yeah, and he writes under different names. And Matt: it's especially funny because Mike Flanagan— again, no, fuck him, he's the fuck— he's doing a great job, leave him alone. Like, yeah, so he's done Carrie, right? He's also doing The Dark Tower, which is also Stephen King. He's also done Gerald's Game, didn't he? Didn't he do Gerald's Game, which is Stephen King? Luke: I'm pretty sure, yeah, Matt: he did. Uh, let me just make sure. Gerald's Game, I'm pretty sure he did that. Jerald's Game director Mike Flanagan. Yes. Um, he has done, um, The Haunting of Hill House was a remake. Like, he's done a lot of remakes. Yes. Luke: And he does them well. Matt: Yes. Luke: Yep. Matt: So he gets some pass on that. Luke: Yeah.

Matt: But Luke: yeah, but yeah, I just— when I first saw the article, he went like, you could never— he, he decided to— and I went No, you don't get to do when all you're doing is doing remakes of his work. But then yeah, I agree with him. He can't. Matt: Didn't he also say this week he'd remake Jurassic Park? I think maybe he needs to have a rethink about that because Jurassic Park doesn't need a remake either. Luke: Maybe he could do a remake of Jurassic Park three. Matt: Yeah, or even two. Two. That might be controversial. Luke: Four. Yeah, that's why I went for three. Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like playing it safe at the time. I think Sam came back. Luke: Yeah, Matt: like Sam Neill. It's not a good movie though, now that I'm a grown-up. Luke: And then we got the other ones.

Matt: Yeah, Luke: which were Jurassic World, which was— Matt: Jurassic World was all right. I think Luke: Jurassic World was okay. It was a sequel to that where they were going, Matt: I haven't seen Luke: them, people have lost interest in dinosaurs now. Matt: I mean, it might happen, you never know. Luke: And I know they would not. Matt: Yeah, I mean, after the events of the first one, imagine though— okay, we're talking about Tesla, right? People have lost interest in flying cars, Luke. Like, Luke: well, the thing is, we thought that they've lost interest in flying cars is that's not a flying car.

Matt: Yeah, they've lost trust in the company, which you would lose trust after the events of Jurassic World. Luke: Okay, true, but I still would love to ride a baby Triceratops. Yeah, I would not get bored with that. Matt: Could a baby try— I can't say it Luke: either. Matt: Do a kickflip over a bunch of other dinosaurs? Probably, Luke: probably if you taught it. Matt: Yeah, all right, fine. Yeah, all right. Uh, I played a few games this week. I finished— what did I finish? I finished Graveyard Keeper. Luke: Oh wow, Matt: yeah, that was fun. Luke: Now don't get Graveyard Keeper 2 yet.

Matt: I'm not, I'm not. I was like, I literally— I, I finished it and then I heard your voice saying, don't buy Graveyard Keeper 2. Luke: No, you should eventually. Don't get me wrong, people, you should eventually— Matt should eventually buy it. But if he was to buy it now, yeah, also he's just talking to me. Matt: Yeah, he's just talking to me. And also, don't let this discourage you if you want to buy Graveyard Keeper 2, but I did look on Reddit and people are saying it might not be ready yet. Luke: Oh, that's a shame. Matt: Well, because it's an indie game, it's just come out, and it's one of those— Graveyard Keeper had the same issue where it's like a system game where, you know, like you've got to collect resources and do this and that, and then the balancing. And then all those games, you know, as much testing as you do when they come out, there's always something people find And so they're, they're patching and tweaking, and there will come a point where it's like ready for someone like me, really, yeah, Luke: who Matt: just wants to play it. Like, I don't want to fuck around. Luke: That might have been a case of like they've made it and they've learned from sort of that mistakes already, and they've now learned how to optimize as well. Matt: Yeah, it's not mistakes. I don't mean like it's like doesn't work or anything like that. I think it's just like the balancing of certain systems. Like, people found Because I think in the new one you can set up factories where you put machines next to each other and machines, like, a thing will get, like, it's hard to explain. Luke: Like, you build things and you make stuff and then you build machines next to each other.

Matt: This, yeah, this machine feeds into that machine, that kind of thing. And apparently just some of that stuff is like, needs to be tweaked. And so for me, I guess I want to wait until that's all sorted. Luke: So I'm going to guess that people are sort of setting it up thinking, okay, I can leave that now and focus on other stuff. And then they come back and find out, no, that hasn't been working and I've just lost all this time type of thing. Matt: Yeah, because even that made me go, maybe that's not a game for me anyway, because Graveyard Keeper was a bit like that. But actually, I'm like, I just like the quirky story and the fun stuff, and I, I found I, I never found I got like bogged down in the grindiness of Graveyard Keeper. And I don't— again, that might be because they fixed all that, but it just sounds like right now Graveyard Keeper 2 would get grindy, like where you're— oh, because also the expansions for Graveyard Keeper give you the zombies, and the zombies do jobs for you. So I never had to, for example, um, chop trees because I just made a zombie that chopped trees for me. Luke: Yeah. Matt: So I think maybe I probably would have stopped playing had I had to keep chopping trees. Luke: Okay, you had to do it all yourself. Matt: And I think Graveyard Keeper 2 you have to do things like that. So Luke: yeah, so you'll wait for the zombies to come so you can— Matt: correct, Luke: zombies.

Matt: Yeah, my zombie army. Luke: Yes, zombie army, not zombie slaves. Matt: No, don't use that word here. Zombie Luke: army Matt: in the afterlife. Um, the game I've moved on to— I said, well, technically 2, technically 3 games, actually technically 4 games. Luke: What is happening? Matt: Let me explain. Uh, I started playing Strange Horticulture. Have you played that? Luke: Oh, I own that, I believe. Matt: It's good, it's good. You own a plant shop in like a kind of gothic world, and the actual main gameplay is people will come in and they'll say, I've got X problem. Like, for example, I think the very first person says something like, I think the neighbors are talking about me. I need a plant that can improve my hearing. And you have a bunch of plants on the shelf and a book, and you have to look up the plant and identify the plant based on the description in the book. And like, sometimes there's a picture, sometimes the description is more helpful than the picture, but you basically have to figure out which plant is the right one and give it to them. And if you get it wrong, then you— your dread meter starts to fill up. And eventually I assume you will lose. But, uh, that's kind of the main gameplay loop. And then you— there's other things too where you have other— you get other equipment and like eventually you can like make elixirs and stuff like that. But like that's kind of the main loop. And then on top of that, there's like this story going on where people come in and they tell you things like, oh, there's a strange creature killing people, and there's like, I accidentally joined a cult. Uh, so it's got this kind of Lovecraftian story going on in the background too. Uh, and then like there's a map and you can go and explore places to find new plants and stuff like that. It's really good. Luke: I, I think I purchased it and then I went, no, I want to spend time to play these. And then I went, no, I'll just wait for someone to walk through it. I've just looked, there is a walkthrough for it now.

Matt: Yeah, I'm sure there is. Yeah, it's on Xbox. Luke: Yes. Yeah, I know. Matt: Yeah, I'm playing them. Luke: I'm playing them. And I just found the walkthrough is on Steam, but it'll work for me, so I might sit down and play it now. It's been waiting to for a while. Matt: Yeah, it's a good game. It's, it's very, uh, unique so far. I don't know that I've ever played anything quite like it. So yeah, good on them. Luke: Okay, right, that's number 1. Matt: It's number 1. Number 2 is, uh, Resident Evil 4, the remake. 4? Yeah, I played Leon. Yes. Yeah, I don't know what made me play 4 specifically because I've got— yeah, I've got 2 which I played through as Chris. Luke: Yeah, Chris. Matt: Yeah, Redfield. Yeah, I've played through as Chris to the end when you're on the elevator and I couldn't beat the boss, and then I forgot that if I just get through that, I have to play the whole game again as Jill. Luke: Yes.

Matt: So I've never— I haven't even done that bit. Luke: Yep. Matt: So I should probably go back to that. I've got the 3 remake, which I haven't looked at, uh, but I've wanted to play 4 because I had fond memories of 4 on the GameCube. Luke: I, I have fond memories of that game as well. It's just a— Matt: well, the remake is great. Yes, it's good. It's, um, I don't even remember the— like, obviously I remember Resident Evil 4 on the GameCube, but when I play this, it just feels like I'm playing it even though I know it's different and they've fixed things, like, it feels right. Luke: Yeah, because the controls on the GameCube were very weird, like, very different. And because I actually played through with Dave's chainsaw controller— Matt: yes, the chainsaw controller— Luke: and that was great, and it just felt right. And then I think they did a remake of it on the Xbox ages ago, and it felt off. Yeah, it just felt off. I do want to play this one. Matt: Yeah, like, it's been a long time since I played it, and I was Like, there's things about it that I'm like, oh, it's so annoying. But then, like, for example, you— when you get to a typewriter to save the game, I say save games in Resident Evil games, you can store things like you can in the others, but you can only store weapons. You can't store any— anything else except for, oh, health spray. Weapons and health spray. You can't put like ammo in. So if you have a bunch of ammo for a weapon and then you put that weapon in storage You have to keep the ammo. And I was like, oh, that's so annoying. Well, but then I was like— and so I looked up like, am I just doing this wrong? And then people said, well, you have to remember the original game didn't have storage at all. You had to carry all the weapons. So the fact that you can even put the guns in is technically cheating. Luke: And because back then it was— you had to decide which gun you wanted.

Matt: And I was like, oh, all right. Yeah, and you sold the ones you didn't. Yes. And then you remember them back. I remember playing— Luke: oh, I played through that game a number of times because you buy better weapons and they would carry on to the next playthrough. And Matt: yeah, and so yeah, you couldn't store them, you had to sell them and then buy them back at like a, like a costing. And I was like, oh, you're right, that, that is how that worked back then. But then, but then I was like, okay, so they gave us a storage, but then also they remade the game, so they could have also just— they could have— you could put the ammo in, but whatever. Luke: Yeah, um, I do need to go back to that. I do Matt: know it's good, and the controls are clunky but not as clunky. It's like a weird thing where it's like, it's, it's slightly annoying, but they've, they've— I don't know, you know, they made them a bit better but not too much better. Luke: I need to check if there's still this scene, you know, in that first village where you've got everyone sort of swarming you. Matt: Yeah, until the bell goes off. Luke: If you shoot the bell It'll make them go early because they hear the bell. So if you shoot the bell, it goes off. Matt: You know what, I knew that and I completely forgot. I should have done that. Interesting. Yeah, I wonder— I have a save. I wonder if you could do that. I bet you could. Luke: Yeah, you can't get rid of that. All right, but that's 2 games.

Matt: That's 2 games. Yeah. Oh yeah, Resident Evil 4 is very fun. Um, the other one is called Um, what is it called? Uh, Outward Bound. What is that? Is it— no, what is— no, Outward Bound is a nonprofit. Out— is it just called Outward? It's an Xbox, uh, Xbox combi game. Oh, it's on Game Pass. What is it called? Um, Luke: which one is it? Because there's 2 at the moment. Matt: We have to cut this out. This is boring. This is dead air. Luke: No, this is dead. I'm trying to think. Where's my controller? Matt: Xbox Game Pass Onwards. Is that what it's called? Luke: Onwards, onwards, Matt: onward. I want to double check. Come on, game, it's a game. Luke: Game Pass, Game Pass, let me check. I'm looking right now. Matt: Outbound. Luke: Outbound,

Matt: it's called Outbound. Luke: All right. Oh no, I, I was thinking of Forever Ago, which is another combi game. Matt: All right, let me retake that so I can chop this. Luke: Okay, Matt: I'm playing a game Uh, with my daughter called Outbound on the Xbox. And it is a very chill— like, you basically, you are in a kind of combi van and you drive around and you collect resources and you build things in the combi van and you make the engine go better so you can go up hills because there's areas that are blocked off until you can go up the hills. And then you unlock campsites and it's very like just chill. And yep, my daughter loves it because she said— I, I didn't know this, I feel so bad about this— apparently she was having nightmares about Breath of the Wild. Luke: Oh Matt: yeah. And I, when she told me, I was like, well, we won't play that anymore then. Like, Luke: yeah, you don't have to if you don't want to. Matt: Jesus. Okay, I didn't know that. She was— yeah, she used to get scared of the Bokoblins and, uh, Luke: oh,

Matt: and I was like, oh shit, dude, I'm really sorry. I thought she liked it. Apparently. Well, I think it's a problem. She did like it, but then she would get scared of the monsters. Luke: So Matt: yeah, I was like, okay, well, we won't play that anymore. And then, um, we finished Yoshi. Well, the main storyline. There's still fucking tons to do, which— and then I was annoyed because she was like, okay, I want to play something else now. And I was like, no, no, we've still got hours and hours of content and I've paid a lot of money. No, I'm done. Um, so anyway, on the Xbox Game Pass, Outbound. Uh, she loves it. It's very chill. It's very like, like you just drive around, collect resources, build things, um, make progress through the world. We've unlocked the next map area. Very chill. Luke: Nothing so weird. There are like 3 combi games on Xbox Game Pass at the moment. Matt: Yeah, there's the one where you're an old man, uh, forever ago. Yes. Yeah, I've got that too. I haven't played it. Luke: Outbound, and then there's another multiplayer one. Matt: Yes, where you test the old ones. Yes, I've seen that. Yeah. Oh, if it's the same one— Luke: no, this multiplayer one where you play these like weird looking things and you smoke and you can— it's, it's very weird. But yeah, it's just, what's with combis? Where did that come from? Matt: They're just good. Yeah. Luke: All

Matt: right, I recommend that. It's a nice relaxing game. She loves it. She tells me what to do, like, because— and then in a way it's odd in that once you unlock the building platform on top of the van, you can literally build a giant house on top of the van. When you, when you park, you, you set up camp and you open the side door, and then this giant house fucking springs out of the top. And, um, and then you fold it up and it goes back in again. And she thinks that's very funny. Luke: I think that's very funny. Matt: It's neat. All right, and then the last one, Luke: number 4, Matt: you've played At least Xbox tells me you've played. It's called Little Kitty in the Big City. Luke: Little Kitty in the Big City. Matt: You're a little black cat and you go around, you fall out of the— you fall off the— the— you're sitting out on the window at the start and you fall off and you have to make your way back home. But you've got to collect shinies for a crow and a— oh yes, and it's— and you can— she thinks it's fucking hilarious because you can walk around and just knock things off. Shelves. Like, you can knock plants off the wall and stuff. She thinks it's the funniest game. So Luke: yeah, Matt: we've been playing that too, and it is Luke: fun. Making a new bread cat.

Matt: Yes, we've, uh, she— our cat has a ladybird hat on at the moment, and the cat doesn't have a name in the game as far as I'm aware. And the cat looks like Binxie, which is Lyra's cat that she's fucking obsessed with, that we— our cat. And so it is Binksy as far as she's concerned. Luke: Let's say it's our cat. You know whose cat it is. Matt: It is our cat now. Thank you very much. Luke: It's not your cat, it's her cat. Matt: Oh, sorry. Yes, I thought you were going to say because it was our friend's cat who they moved back here and he wasn't able to go. Luke: So no, it's your daughter's cat. Matt: Definitely. Anyway, so that's fun. It's a fun game. Luke: Yeah. Can we just touch on something before we go? Something I just found very funny that's happening at the moment and it is sort of on here. That's how Xbox sort of leaning into a bit of the chaos that's happening at the moment with AI with the new Xbox Labs. Matt: Yes, Luke: whereas everyone's going out there and they're now using AI to vibe code, but

Matt: yeah, Luke: basically decompiling games and then combining with other games. So Matt: interesting, Luke: you've got Elden Ring with Minecraft and Mario and all this stuff that's happening. But the thing I actually find quite funny is, is a lot of these studios and publishers and things aren't quite happy about it, especially because some people were actually doing the same thing with like, um, Photoshop. Matt: Yes. Luke: And they're starting to think, here's a version of Photoshop that we've now put together, that's our own thing. Matt: The whole suite, the whole Adobe suite, somebody made, live coded the whole Adobe suite. Luke: And it's sort of weird because all these companies were learning into AI, go, we're going to learn from all of your stuff and now incorporate it out. Yeah. Now everyone's just doing the same thing. Well, we're going to learn from your stuff and just make our own free version of it. Matt: Yeah. Luke: And now they're not quite happy about AI as much anymore, but Xbox seemed to be leaning into it a bit.

Matt: Yeah, the game thing is interesting because, um, like most of it is just like fun 5-minute thing where it's like, oh yeah, what would Elden Ring be like if you could dig like Minecraft? And it's like, yeah, but that's not a good game. Like, because no, you know, it's— pardon me— games are like designed in a certain way for a reason. And so like when you just smush them together like that, it's fun, but it's not, you know. Luke: But there's— that's the other thing, it's not about just mushing some games together. They're actually able to decompile code and make it— well, make it so now works. Now you've got a PlayStation exclusive that you can just run on PC. Matt: That's true, that aspect is interesting. One thing that somebody brought up Because, uh, somebody said it also, you know, like if you were like, I wonder how they did that, you could decompile the game and look at it. And then this guy who's a— he's a game programmer said not really, because what you need to understand is the, the AI will look at the game and it will decompile it and make a version of it and it will work the same. But if you look at the code the AI wrote, that's not the code that the developers wrote. And yeah, so you wouldn't— Luke: which makes it legally distinct. Matt: Well, yeah, but it wouldn't make it super valuable for learning how they did it because that's how the AI figured out a way to do it. It's not how the developers did it. So it's— and like, I was like, oh, that's, that's true. Like, it's, it's not, um— and he also said too, generally speaking, in the game industry, if you wanted to know how they did it, you could just ask them and tell you. Like, people aren't really hoarding secrets or any kind of secret Luke: they want to share. And so Matt: yeah, uh, so that aspect of it he said has been a bit oversold. But yes, porting, which is what this is about— Xbox is embracing this whole thing of porting games using AI because as long as it works, it actually doesn't really matter if the code is identical. But it has to work. Luke: Well, it has to work, but then also you just also just had a whole thing with Total War 2 where they just re— they did an upgraded version of that. Matt: Yeah, right. Luke: AI to do the upgrade.

Matt: People don't like it. Luke: Everyone complained about it. They've already— and that came out on October 13th. 2 days later it was taken offline and here's your old version back. Because so it's sort of weird, some people got— the audience seems to be, oh, this is great, we could do all this. But then the second a studio does that, oh no, you can't do that. It's— Matt: I think it's too— I think it might even be 2 different audiences. I think that's the problem. Like, because the people— the studio does it, that's not interesting. But when people at home are doing it, then it's like enthusiasts, and then they get interested. Like, it's, it's like 2 different audiences almost. Like, yeah, Luke: but yeah, I've seen, I've seen the same people who complain about one like the other as well. And yeah, right, I'm finding that a bit weird. Matt: Like, because when it's a scrappy guy in his basement who has an AI do it, that's cool. But when like Microsoft does it, it's like, fuck off, Microsoft. Luke: And, and sometimes— and while I'm not a big fan of it, with Total War 2, I reckon what they did was, here, we can give you an upgraded version of it and we don't have to invest in it because we weren't going to do this anyway, Matt: right? Yeah, you wouldn't have this otherwise. Luke: Yeah, so the reason you're getting this is because we can do it this way if you Matt: slap it Luke: together

Matt: with AI. Luke: If you don't want this we're not gonna do it at all. So, but yeah, that's— I just wanted to— I just found that very interesting and found that quite funny that, yeah, you can just use all of Adobe now essentially for free. Matt: Yeah, Luke: because Matt: no, it's very interesting Luke: but Matt: very Luke: disruptive, flipping the books on them when they were learning from you to, um, using their AI to learn from you. Now Matt: it does make me wonder about my job security though. Going forward. I mean, it should make a lot of people worried about it. Like, like, I'm not a game developer, I'm a web developer, but I mean, yeah, it's definitely going to change my job in the coming years. Yes, for sure. Yep, it's very scary times. Luke: But look, we're not going to focus on that. We're going to focus on you going to patreon.com/multiplenergasm,

Matt: me Luke: clicking on that link. No, this is what we're going to focus on, is telling people to do that. Matt: Got it. Luke: So they can go on there and give me money. Matt: Yes, us money, I think you meant to say. Luke: Us. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Matt: If you want to support the show, you can do so for as little as $1 a month. And if you do, if you give us a dollar a month, you get the show a bit early and you get some, uh, some extra behind-the-scenes stuff. Uh, you can get access to the Discord. Anyone can get access to the Discord actually now if you go to the website. You have to go to multipleorgasm.com, you get access to the Discord. But Luke: also reach out to us on there. Matt: Yep, if you sign up on Patreon, you also get access to the Discord, uh, and then for $5 a month you get the afterparty, which is where we're going to keep talking, uh, for who knows how long. We've got some Geek of the Week candidates this week. That's where somebody's died of note and Luke is going to choose the best one. And we've got 2 weeks worth actually, because we didn't address this, but we didn't record last week because you were at PAX. Luke: I, I, I was very tired the first day, and then on Saturday night we normally record, I may have got out and got very drunk.

Matt: Classic. Yeah, so we missed a week, so, uh, so we've got some extra Geeks of the Week, which sometimes means Luke will do 2, but not always. We'll see. Luke: Not always. It depends on who's there, because I don't just give this award away willy-nilly. You're gonna earn it. Matt: Um, so we've got Geek of the Week, and we've also got some dick news in the afterparty. Luke: Dick news. We haven't had dick news in the afterparty for ages. Matt: So if you're excited about dicks, as you should be, I'm very Luke: excited about this dick. Matt: patreon.com/multipleorgasm. Oh, it's a super dick. Outro: That's all for this week. Thank you for listening, and we hope you enjoyed the show. If you enjoyed it, then please subscribe and iTunes to receive episodes automatically. We'll see you next time.